Iberianature Forum

Iberian geography, history, geology, environment and climate => Geography and geology => Topic started by: nick on October 18, 2007, 18:02 PM

Title: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: nick on October 18, 2007, 18:02 PM
OK. New idea, which I think should be a new board.

Environmental history of Iberia

Each period will correspond to a topic. The number of topics will be closed. We can sticky them so that they come in the right order. That way we essentialy write a history of Iberia.

First thing we need to do is to divide things into different periods.

I suggest as ground zero the last glacial maximum. The first periods are climatic. After 5000 BP all are significantly human influened. we should use BP. Before Present as a standard date reference.

I'm not an expert. I've taken these from several books. There are also sub-periods. Seems to coincide with other souces. Steve? Clive? Everyone else?

When we're decided on the posts, we'll create them and start investigating each period, as we fancy it or probaly better in some order

20000-13,000 BP End of Wurm (16,000-13,000 Late Glacial)

13,000-10,000 BP Late Glacial Interstade (Dryas I and II)

10,000BP to present. Holocene

-Preboreal

-Boreal

I'm confused here as to dates - (1. some sources use BP and other BC....and we're mixing climate and human periods.

Neolithic

Iberian

Romans

Visigoth

Middle Ages - Moors, fuedalism, black death. Mesta

16-19th Century. Little Ice Age, Armada, shipbuilding, charcoal

Industrial

Post Industrial

Or more simply

Glacial

Post Glacial

Neothliic
...







Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: Clive on October 18, 2007, 18:24 PM
An excellent idea but the structure is very important for future reference... (i presume when you say posts you mean topics nick? with relevant titles....)

We could convert all dates to BP (before present) and set present to 2010... that'd give us two and a bit years to get this study done.... :)

The limit would be 20 topics to the board so that all topics show on one page....

This is a very large project by the way....

Moderating to keep topics focused will be very strict...

So we need the topic headings for each period and also need to define each period... I am still keen on increments of 1000 years from 20,000 years ago regardless of ice age, humans or whatever...

Clive
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: nick on October 18, 2007, 18:33 PM
Yes, sorry, topics.

Don't agree on 1000 year increments as although has a certain literally value it's never done like this in textbooks. And there's far more to say about recent history.

Yes, strict moderating. None of our typical asides (Arab influence - carobs - chocolate - churros)
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: nick on October 18, 2007, 18:46 PM
I can't find any sites which give a potted history of Europe in last 10,000 years....
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: Clive on October 18, 2007, 18:48 PM
literary or literally ?? I was thinking that this could in the future be the first IB forum publication..... Which is why I like the 1000 year thing....

Clive
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: nick on October 18, 2007, 20:20 PM
- literary.

Yes, I'd thought about something similar, publication-wise. It's an idea I've had brewing for years. So much to write about there.

We'd have to resolve any ideological differences though. I could not put my pen to anything that did not have a progressive, humanist outlook.

As far as the periods are concerned, I'm not at all convinced. You can say a hell of lot about the last 1000 years, and very little, relatively, about, say 13000 BP.

Interested
Nick

PS Want to get the fist IB (non-forum) book published first though...plans, plans, plans
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: Technopat on October 18, 2007, 23:19 PM
Greetings All,
Fascinating reading and greatly looking forward to further developments (from which Technopat gladly self-excludes hisself*).

On the matter of BP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_Present (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_Present)

*
Quote
Yes, strict moderating. None of our typical asides (Arab influence - carobs - chocolate - churros)

Best of luck,
Technopat

PS.
If the stuff were to appear here in bite-sized instalments for pre-publication peer review, yours truly would be glad to help out with amateurish proofreading and editing >:D.
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: SueMac on October 19, 2007, 12:42 PM
ditto above :poketongue:
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: steveT on October 20, 2007, 00:12 AM
Try this,

Predictive modelling of tree species distributions on the Iberian Peninsula during the Last Glacial Maximum and Mid-Holocene
MartaBenito Garzón, RutSánchez de Dios and HeliosSáinz Ollero,

This where I got alot of information.........both senarios they offer for the late glacial max (LGM), tend to more complex than steppe even in the meseta area..........though alot of spain was clearly steppe in LGM.....there's loads of information......mapps could be clearer.

Really enjoy this board...and the idea of peruing it as history.

steveT


Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: Clive on October 20, 2007, 00:41 AM
been thinking.....

35,000 years to 12,000 years is palaeolithic (BP)... and that is the starting date for the human impact on Iberia...

So, start date should be 35,000 years BP

re wikipedia BP and the year of 1950... I could write 10 books on the impact of human society on it's environment and still have room for more stuff... in fact i think the last topic on this proposed board should be 1950 to BP (2010)
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: steveT on October 20, 2007, 01:04 AM
This is an old but useful site......there's a 2002 version but don't know how to get it.

Put this in to google.......GLOBAL ATLAS OF PALAEOVEGETATION SINCE THE LAST GLACIAL MAXIMUM......it's easy to find.

Going back to 35,000 bp would be interesting.........and a logical place to start.........not forgetting that up to perhaps 27,000 bp there was 2 of us ..........the Neanderthals............

Any environmental history/chronology really also needs to really heavily on the use of clear maps and clear graphs too........so often in articles they are really poor and so hard to understand ...... you can go back to them only to realise you completely mis read something vital.........

steveT

Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: Clive on October 20, 2007, 01:17 AM
The site SteveT mentions is at

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercEUROPE.html
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: SueMac on October 21, 2007, 09:32 AM
Hi
                   Some resources you may not have considered
1    Model Map of Europe 10000BP
cof http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/projects/Europe10K/10kbp.html
2   Resource for maps
http://iam.classics.unc.edu/map/map_idx.html
3
Diaz del Rio, Leonardo Garcia Sanjuan and David Wheatley papers may give you some more clues;
 Oxford Journal of Archaeology
Volume 23 Issue 2 Page 107-121, May 2004

To cite this article: PEDRO DÍAZ-DEL-RÍO (2004) COPPER AGE DITCHED ENCLOSURES IN CENTRAL IBERIA
Oxford Journal of Archaeology 23 (2), 107–121.
doi:10.1111/j.1468-0092.2004.00204.x

Abstract
COPPER AGE DITCHED ENCLOSURES IN CENTRAL IBERIA
PEDRO DÍAZ-DEL-RÍO11Departamento de Prehistoria
Instituto de Historia, CSIC
C/ Serrano 13, 28001-Madrid, Spain
E-mail: diazdelrio@ih.csic.es1Departamento de Prehistoria
Instituto de Historia, CSIC
C/ Serrano 13, 28001-Madrid, Spain
E-mail: diazdelrio@ih.csic.es
Abstract

Summary. 
 The interpretation of European Neolithic enclosures must take account of their wide variability in chronology, size, shape, topographical position and material. Such interpretations should rely on the comparative analysis of the processes at work in particular regions. Newly recovered data from small early third millennium cal BC ditched enclosures in central Iberia, with high densities of features and domestic refuse, support the hypothesis of permanent habitation. This paper argues that the variability in late Neolithic–Chalcolithic enclosures throughout Iberia is a result of the cycling of fission and fusion characteristic of segmentary social dynamics.

This article is cited by:
Lydia Zapata, Leonor Peña-Chocarro, Guillem Pérez-Jordá, Hans-Peter Stika. (2004) Early Neolithic Agriculture in the Iberian Peninsula. Journal of World Prehistory 18:4, 283
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SueMac
Title: Re: Environmental history of Iberia
Post by: steveT on October 22, 2007, 00:18 AM
Dear all,

This article is great about the Ebro basin 30,000bp to now.

Glacial and Lateglacial vegetation in northeastern Spain:
New data and a review
Pene´lope Gonza´ lez-Sampe´ riza,, Blas L. Valero-Garce´ sa, Jose´ S. Carrio´ nb,
Jose´ L. Pen˜ a-Monne´ c, Jose´ M. Garc?´a-Ruiza, Carlos Mart?´-Bonoa

Summarising their reconstruction of paleovegatation:

That the local micro climates and elevation created and still creates a mozaic of vegetation types

That even during coldest times there were typical  med. trees in small refugia....

That during the glacial max, there was areas of steppe but it was as part of a mozaic of other vegatation types especially pine.

steveT