Iberianature Forum

Spanish mammals (lynx, bear, wolves, cabras, moufflon and the little furry creatures too). => Mammals of Iberia => Topic started by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:20 PM

Title: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:20 PM
I was thrilled last Sunday to meet my first Cantabrian brown bears. Asturian place names such as Trubia, Proaza, Quirós and Belmonte de Miranda are no longer "faceless" areas on maps but are now images imprinted in my mind. My first bears were not wild however. The sisters names are Paca and Tola and they live in an enclosure of almost 5 ha near the village of Proaza.
In 1989, at the age of four months, the cubs were rescued byFapas and Seprona (http://www.fapas.es/paca_tola_fapas.htm) after a tip-off. A poacher had killed their mother and taken the cubs. The story is hazy here. All I can glean is that two individuals were implicated in the matter and have no idea whether they were imprisoned or fined or both. Anyone know? The cub's first stop was with Fapas in Llanes (they are named after the president and his wife), then on to Barcelona, then Cuenca until finally arriving at their purpose-built home in Proaza. Having become so accustomed to human contact and hence having no fear of man, the bears wouldn't be able to fend for themselves in the wild without finding recourse to human sources of food.
(http://www.fapas.es/images/fa-pc2.jpg)
Their hillside enclosure is reached via a short walk along the Senda del Oso (I wasn't quite running  8)) where at 12.00pm every day they are fed by their keeper.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Clive on November 06, 2007, 15:30 PM
Hi Lisa,

Why were the bears sent to Barcelona and then Cuenca?

Clive
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:31 PM
Entering the feeding enclosure appeared to be a little complicated as Paca (the more dominant though slightly smaller of the two) held back while Tola couldn't wait to get at it. The keeper patiently waited for her to move away so that Paca could enter first, which she did in her own time. For Sunday lunch they had carrier bags full of apples, pears and oranges followed by a bag of peanuts each. Two different methods of eating them were applied; bashing them with a nose to break the shell and crunching the whole lot, spitting them out, leaving the shells and eating the nuts. They are now at their optimum weight for seeing out the winter so are not eating huge amounts (they can gather their own nuts and berries on their hill) but are occasionally fed delicacies such as cocido.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:35 PM
Hi Clive, you've caught me mid-flow! Because there wasn't anywhere for them here. The Principado paid for their enclosure to be built in Asturias. They play a very important role as a flagship for the conservation for the rest of their species and are obviously very well-loved and cared for.
Last post coming....
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 15:41 PM
Thanks for that Lisa,

Brought back good memories of taking our nieces to see them this summer.

For those of you who don't know the area, Paca and Tola's enclosure lies at the end of an excellent cycle path which runs along an old mining railtrack, known as La Senda del Oso. The path (or rather network of paths) runs through tunnels, across bridges and through a spectacular gorge. Reasonably-priced cycle hire is available at each end. They've also got cycle with back seats for little kids which is what we used.
 
More here
http://www.terra.es/personal2/diazpl/senda%20del%20oso.html
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 15:44 PM
There are references to bears almost every week in the local press and people love talking about them. My limited experience of Asturias has given me the impression that bears in general and Paco and Tola specifically are quasi-nationalist symbols, and much loved...unlike wolves.
 
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:54 PM
Now I've got all confused and am posting the same photo twice! I'll get there  :dancing:
Knowing their story, I didn't feel in the slightest sad or depressed at seeing these beautiful animals behind bars but rather awed in their presence.
After much study of whether or not and how to use their genes by inseminating them, it seems the current plan is to concentrate efforts (as advised by the Swedish expert Jon Swenson) on preserving as much of the bear's natural habitat as possible and hopefully joining the western and eastern populations.
Here are some more pic's.....
After lunch Tola ambled away up the hill and Paca clambered into a trough to have a scratch, as one does.
Liv and I sat and communed with Paca when everyone had gone. There's a viewing platform opposite their pool from where we just gazed at each other.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:56 PM
Here's Tola ambling.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:57 PM
And Paca post-prandial.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 15:58 PM
And Paca by the pool.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 15:58 PM
Quote
Knowing their story, I didn't feel in the slightest sad or depressed at seeing these beautiful animals behind bars but rather awed in their presence.

It should also be said that their enclosure occupies half of a hillside. For captive animals it's huge. Most of the time you can't see them as their hidden in the rocks, scrub and trees.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 16:00 PM
Lisa,
Which one is the shier of the two? I can't remember
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 16:09 PM
Tola is the more diffident. Paca is more confident and not so aggressive.
I forgot a couple of links. One from Fapas (http://www.fapas.es/notifapas/hoy/2007/20070716_osos_belmonte.htm) on the repopulation of Belmonte (18 bears as of last July using the area) and, most importantly, the Fundación Oso de Asturias, (http://www.osodeasturias.es/index.asp) who are in charge of Paca and Tola.
I was very disappointed in their shop in the village and didn't spend the money I had reserved for it but donated it instead. We were given posters and I gave them my petition address  ;D
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 16:11 PM
Now, if the Junta de Castilla y León could just get hold of a couple of orphaned wolf cubs (shouldn't be too difficult  >:D), run a school-based name the cubs competition.....
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 16:15 PM
"run a school-based name the cubs "

Is that what they did with Paca and Tola?
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 16:16 PM
Nice idea, anyway
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 16:26 PM
Oops, I got the naming a bit wrong. Fapas; (http://From http://www.fapas.es/notifapas/not0176.htm)

"Tola recibe su nombre del cazador que avisó a las autoridades del hallazgo de las osas, a quien todos conocian  como Antolín -Tolo-.
Paca es un homenaje a la mujer de Roberto Hartasánchez, presidente de FAPAS."

A couple of years ago another female bear managed to enter the enclosure and was promptly seen off. Apparently she was very thin and probably after food.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Technopat on November 06, 2007, 16:37 PM
Greetings Lisa, Nick and All,
Thanx for the pics 'n' links.  Just adding the page-specific link for specific details on P&T (weight, etc.) at the Fundación Oso: http://www.osodeasturias.es/interior.asp?MP=30&MS=45&MT=0&TR=C&IDR=46

Have been visiting P&T on a yearly basis since they were put their enclosure (summer of '96) and both my kids a very familiar with 'em - from our side of the fence. Also have loads of pics. - non-digital format - going way back.

RE. your
Quote
A couple of years ago another female bear managed to enter the enclosure and was promptly seen off. Apparently she was very thin and probably after food.
we heard that story but decided it was nonsense - how on earth can another bear get in? Or out? If you have any links to the story (or is it in one of the ones you've already posted?) please post it here.

If-you-don't-find-me-in-Madrid-look-for-me-in-Asturias regs.,
Technopat
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 16:42 PM
Something I wrote about them in 2005 - This 2007 summer, the guide in the nearby Fundación Oso Pardo centre said it was going to go ahead. Don't know when.

http://www.iberianature.com/material/spainbearnews.htm
2005
"Asturias studies crossing Paca and Tola. Asturias now has a scientific study of the procedures for mating 'Paca' and 'Tola' (see below). The plan is first to use foreign bear sperm to check that they are fertile. If affirmative, they would then be by impregnated with a Cantabrian male (the problem there is currently no captive male). The bear brought to Asturias for the task would have to be docile to ensure it doesn't attack the much-loved pair, and who have never seen a male. I am a little confused by this news as I thought the plan was to artificially inseminate them"
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 19:06 PM
Tp, the keeper told the story of the female entering the enclosure so I believed it. He is very knowledgeable (and dedicated, he was opening and closing the visitor's centre between feeding the bears at 12.00 and then giving them merienda at 17.30) even explaining genetics. Yes, I asked my question and he nodded and said he prefers the geographic name.

Nick, same keeper said there were no plans to breed from them. I've read they're injected every year to prevent them from coming into season. I reckon the problem of inseminating them is how to do it using a wild male  :o Rather than bring a male to them, I would have thought it would be preferable to take one of the girls to him but the logistics of that are  :speechless: Thinking on my bum feet now, I suppose it could be poss. to dart-drug a male, electric shock-induce ejaculation and rush it to one of them - or is that completely silly.....
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Clive on November 06, 2007, 19:57 PM
I know where there are a few bears in a circus not far away...... I'm sure the semen would be as good as wild bears

But seriously. Are these the only bears of this species in captivity in the world? Is there no cooperative scheme at all going on... (another question for Iñigo at Jerez zoo me thinks). :)

Clive
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 20:12 PM
There are lots of brown bears in captivity. They were going to use one from that safari park in Cantabria which begins with "C" and is built in an old Roman open-cast gold mine. Name escapes me. Lisa?
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Technopat on November 06, 2007, 21:07 PM
Greetings All,
Eagerly awaiting input from Iñigo (rather than make off-the-cuff remarks re. artinsem*, etc., - was going to continue in similar vein ... but Clive's appeal to an authority has made me decide to desist from playful banter**)

*buzzword for the future - don't pinch it - it's copyright!
**without setting any precedent, of course

Regs.,
Technopat
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 22:15 PM
Clive, these are very special bears - the only Cantabrian brown bears in captivity.

Nick, the bears in Cabárceno (near Santander) are European brown bears and not even Scandanavian so no good at all.



Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 22:20 PM
There's that debate again as to whether they are a separate sub-species or not...I don't want to go into again...but we should admit that scientific opinion is divided

Cabárceno, that's it. Have you ever been?
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Clive on November 06, 2007, 22:22 PM
looks like a subject for a new topic :)
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 22:26 PM
We've discussed it here in the main brown bear thread

http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,215.0.html
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 06, 2007, 22:29 PM
Just before I disappear, the Cantabrian bears, southern (?) Scandanavian bears and the tiny enclave of bears in Italy all belong to the same genetic lineage and are different from other European brown bears. I'm off!
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 06, 2007, 22:31 PM
That's sounds right. So very possibly Paca y Tola are the only captive bears from this DNA group.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Technopat on November 07, 2007, 00:28 AM
Greetings All,
Mrs Technopat is Spanish. Technopat is not. The resulting Technopatlets are vastly superior and perfected models. Natural selection rules, OK.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 07, 2007, 08:34 AM
I should expound a little here. When the keeper (I'm sorry I didn't get his name) said he prefered the geographical term, after my query on Ursus arctos arctos, I said "Oh, so Ursus arctos pyrenaicus?". He smiled and replied "O (Or) Cantabricus !"
This interaction took place during feeding time so, me being shy and the fact that there were a fair few spectators around, the discussion was left there.

During our stay at a friend's house in Asturias, I read her tourist guides "Asturias, Paraíso Natural". The translations into English were particularly interesting, informing us that on the Senda del Oso it is possible to visit Paca and Tola, the famous "geese"  :o
I'll be investigating today how the translation of "osas" (female bears) managed to be confused with "ocas" (female geese) and how it ended up in print this year. I should imagine a number of English speakers wouldn't have been too bothered to visit a couple of water birds.


Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 07, 2007, 09:47 AM
Brilliant! Even better than the Catalan Sausage and Jews I saw on a menu two nights ago. They should be made into Monumentos Nacionales.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Technopat on November 14, 2007, 11:34 AM
Greetings All,
RNE Asturias announced this morning that Fundación Oso (http://www.osodeasturias.es/) was continuing with viability study for breeding with Paca & Tola. No mention of it (yet) on their web site, however.
Regs.
Technopat
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 14, 2007, 14:50 PM
Well, it would be irresponsible of them to give up on the plan completely until a suitable suitor comes along just because of a few minor obstacles  >:D Did they give any details?
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Technopat on November 14, 2007, 17:52 PM
Not a sausage!
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 22, 2007, 11:27 AM
Ah ha! It appears the breeding from Paca and Tola is going ahead with a trial insemination next spring. Rather than inseminating the bears artificially, which apparently doesn't give good results, they're going for a natural copulation with a male bear also used to captive life and human contact. With there being no male Cantabrian bear in captivity, they've got their eyes on another but don't say yet from where. Personally, I feel a bit uncomfortable about this fertility trial. What will happen to any offspring?

From lne.es; (http://www.lne.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=1827_34_579441__BAJO-NALON-Paca-Tola-aparearan-primavera)
"Primavera de 2008. Ésta es la fecha que tiene en mente la Fundación Oso de Asturias (FAO) para dar comienzo a un esperado proyecto: la reproducción de las osas más famosas de Asturias, «Paca» y «Tola». Según avanzó el director de la Fundación, Carlos Zapico, la intención es comenzar estos trabajos una vez que las dos hermanas superen el período de hibernación, que comenzará en breve. Así, los meses clave serán mayo y junio, época de celo de los plantígrados, y el medio que se utilizará para llevar a cabo una primera prueba de fertilidad será la monta natural, por un macho cautivo cuyo origen aún está por determinar. Es sólo el primero de los pasos necesarios para conseguir una reserva genética de esta especie en peligro de extinción y para dar continuidad a uno de los principales símbolos contra el furtivismo y en pro de la sensibilización medioambiental.

El presidente de la Fundación Oso de Asturias indicó que ya se está trabajando en esta iniciativa, que pretende conocer si «Paca» y «Tola» pueden ser madres. «En estos momentos estamos elaborando el protocolo de actuación que nos marcará cómo debemos actuar de manera más concreta. Nuestra intención es poder llevar a cabo esta prueba de fertilidad la próxima primavera», matizó. Y es que las luces de alarma en torno a la reproducción de las hermanas que viven en el monte Fernanchín ya estaban a punto de saltar. El Patronato de la Fundación aprobó la semana pasada continuar con los estudios para llevar a cabo la reproducción de las osas, considerando que «tienen ya 18 años y, aunque hay constancia de hembras que han sido madres con más de veinte años en estado de libertad, y con más edad en cautiverio, no debemos olvidar que cuantos más años pasen menos probabilidades habrá de reproducir a "Paca" y "Tola"», arguyó. Y es que el proceso no será corto.

En los meses de mayo y junio la Fundación pretende introducir en el cercado situado entre los concejos de Proaza y Santo Adriano un ejemplar de oso pardo que ya esté acostumbrado a la cautividad. Será el momento de celo de las osas, aunque nadie garantiza que las hermanas acepten a su pretendiente. «Sólo conoceremos si esta experiencia ha tenido éxito en 2009, después de que «Paca» y «Tola» hibernen. Si aparecen con oseznos, habremos comprobado que pueden ser madres y podremos continuar con los trabajos de reproducción. Además, este proceso nos aportará datos de gran importancia para seguir avanzando en esta línea».

Y es que uno de los problemas para perpetuar la estirpe de estas osas reside en la subespecie a la que pertenecen. «Paca» y «Tola» son los únicos ejemplares de oso pardo cantábrico en semicautividad. No hay ningún macho de esta especie cautivo, y eso dificulta los trabajos. De ahí que lo primero sea conocer si pueden ser madres y, más tarde, conseguir osos en semicautividad «puros» de esta subespecie en peligro de extinción. En este sentido, Carlos Zapico señaló que se barajaron muchas opciones para iniciar estos trabajos y que, finalmente, se optó por realizar una monta natural con un ejemplar de oso en cautividad -y, por lo tanto, no un oso pardo cantábrico-, pues es la que más garantías ofrecía. «Es, sin duda, el método más natural para saber si las osas pueden tener descendencia. Es la primera vez que las hermanas pueden ser madres y en estos casos la inseminación no suele dar buenos resultados. Además, el macho estará habituado a vivir dentro de un cercado y no se estresará por la presencia de personas a su alrededor. Es lo más seguro y lo más recomendado», explicó el director de la Fundación.

Será, por lo tanto, el primero de los pasos para lograr los objetivos que tiene marcados la FOA. Según Zapico, no sólo es importante conseguir una reserva genética que «garantice» la existencia de esta subespecie, sino que, además, es vital dar continuidad al símbolo que representan «Paca» y «Tola». «Son un verdadero icono en Asturias para la conservación de la especie, además de un símbolo de educación y concienciación ambiental», señaló. A todo ello hay que unir el innegable «tirón» turístico que tienen estas osas y que aprovechan todos los concejos de la comarca de los valles del Trubia. En este sentido, el director de la Fundación dejó patente que el cercado ha supuesto una inyección para estos municipios y que, además, las osas juegan un papel muy importante en el programa de educación ambiental que tiene en marcha la FOA. Pero la descendencia de «Paca» y «Tola» está aún por llegar. Esto sólo es el comienzo
."
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 22, 2007, 12:25 PM
I was told in the summer they'd be used for release into the wild -

and as the cubs would have to "dishabituated" to human contact, they may have to remove Paca and Tola from the public's gaze.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 22, 2007, 14:51 PM
But wouldn't that only apply if a Cantabrian male was used?
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Tilley on November 22, 2007, 15:45 PM
Hi guys, hope you don't mind me butting in! I'm having a look at this for the Olive Press and just wanted to clarify a couple of things...

In order to test the fertility of Paca and Tola they are going to release a male accustomed to captivity but of the wrong sub-species into the enclosure and if cubs appear they will take the next step?

And what will the next step be do you think? As they don't have a captive male of the right sub-species 'artinsem' (tm) must be the only option.... but they say this is not very effective, no?

And the 'trial run' cubs? presumably they will stay in the enclosure? As the article Lisa posted recognises in the final paragraph - the bears have become central to the local economy so I suppose they want the tourist attraction to continue into the future....
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Tilley on November 22, 2007, 16:24 PM
Where he says
"Es la primera vez que las hermanas pueden ser madres y en estos casos la inseminación no suele dar buenos resultados."

Presumably he means that if a bear has not reproduced in the past artinsem (tm) isn't usually effective. Not that they are just coming to sexual maturity because that would have been at 6ish years old no? And these girls are 18 now...

So they'll try to get them to reproduce naturally with the wrong sub-species and this will facilitate successful artinsem (tm) with the right sub-species in the future?

On another note...

I read that if the pregnant mother does not put enough weight on before hibernation she will re-absorb the fertilised embryo into her system and this will keep her alive during the winter sleep...
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 22, 2007, 16:45 PM
Hi Lisa T. There's no problem with these two not putting on enough weight  ;D
I suppose the natural method of putting a male bear in with them, albeit of another race, for the experiment could be their rationale for testing their fertility and for making a future birth with a Cantabrian male more certain (?) but you should contact either info@osodeasturias.es or fapas@fapas.es to clarify this.


Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Tilley on November 22, 2007, 17:31 PM
Thanks Lisa, I've tried emailing  :roxysnail: but have had no reply - will give them a call in the morning...!
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on November 23, 2007, 11:59 AM
Used your photo Lisa, hope you don't mind

http://www.iberianature.com/spainblog/2007/11/23/paca-and-tola/

Nick
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on November 23, 2007, 14:52 PM
Not at all. (Cantabricusas  :o)
It's O.K. don't answer  ;D
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: Clive on November 24, 2007, 16:30 PM
Lisa Tilley At the Olive press has written a piece about Paca and Tola.

http://www.theolivepress.es/2007/11/23/fun-loving-bears-desperately-seeking-mate/

I am very pleased that through Wildside Holidays and the iberianature forum people who would not normally find out about subjects like this are joining the learning curve.... It can only mean further awareness and support for the countryside and the wildlife that resides there...

Clive
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on April 09, 2008, 07:45 AM
Next week should see Paca and Tola moving to their new enclosure, along with the chosen male from Cabárceno safari park. (The recent revelation of the bear's ancestry has really given the green light for these possible pregnancies.) The bears will have their own separate areas with a common meeting ground in the middle and will be closely monitored. Visits are being restricted to small, guided numbers.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: nick on April 09, 2008, 09:44 AM
Are they going to stay there for the rest of their lives? Or wil they be taken back to their old enclosure after rearing their cubs? -
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on April 10, 2008, 06:29 AM
No idea Nick but I should think that when the cubs are old enough, they're going to need two separate areas for P & T & any young bears when they're old enough to be on their own. Avoiding human contact so they (one?) can be released in the wild will be hard in this case I would have thought. The show must go on?
See you Sat. with my cooking head on to stop the cornflour going in!
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on April 21, 2008, 15:02 PM
Furaco, the chosen male for the fertility test of Paca and Tola, arrives at Proaza today. lavozdeaviles.es (http://www.elcomerciodigital.com/aviles/20080421/asturias/furaco-llega-proaza-rodeado-20080421.html) says that his enclosure is on the other side of the Senda del Oso and that the bears will be able to see and smell each other. Wish I could see that  :)
However, they also say;
"Descartada la posibilidad de acometer una inseminación artificial de 'Paca' y 'Tola', por la todavía escasa eficacia del método, los responsables de Cantabria y Asturias se decidieron por este macho con la esperanza de probar la fertilidad de las osas asturianas, de la raza parda cantábrica, y mantener la reserva genética en cautividad, a pesar de que 'Furaco' es un oso pardo del Pirineo."
He's not Pyrenean, of course, but from Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on April 23, 2008, 12:48 PM
Furaco shows what he's made of on teleasturias.com (http://www.teleasturias.com/digital/index.php?gSec=noticia&gId=4770&gTit=El%20oso) and Paca, of course, was the first to check out what a fine specimen of a bear he is  8)
Contrary to what's been written before, the bears are only separated by a fence. It looks likely to be about a month before they're allowed physical contact. I hope everything goes O.K. - he's huge!
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on April 23, 2008, 18:59 PM
More film of yesterday's events on 20minutos.es. (http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/372023/inseminacion/paca/tola/) I've been looking for a photo of him scratching his back on the tree but haven't come up with anything yet. Someone must have captured it.......
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on May 03, 2008, 07:59 AM
Confirmed from the horse's mouth, (http://fapas.es/) well one of them (Spanish anyone?);

"No, los descendientes de Tola y Paca, si los hay, no pueden ser liberados en el medio natural ya que serían osos no adaptados y genéticamente distintos de los que habitan en el Pirineo.
Furaco es genéticamente  desconocido. Pero la utilización de las posibles crías que tenga con Tola y Paca como van a ser para mantenerlas en cautividad no implica alteración alguna.   

Hay que dejar claro que este tema de la reproducción de Tola y Paca no tiene ninguna relación con la conservación de la población osera que vive en libertad
."

This is the answer from Fapas to a question asking if any cubs born would be used in the reintroduction programme in the Pyrenees. They say the cubs couldn't be released because they'd be in human contact (Paca and Tola having to be closely monitored directly by vets) and also would be genetically distinct (Slovenian bears  ??? ) Fapas point out that this project has nothing to do with the conservation of the Cantabrian bears in the wild.
 

Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on May 23, 2008, 14:53 PM
Well, the three bears met yesterday, (http://www.teleasturias.com/digital/index.php?gSec=noticia&gId=5039&gTit=) and everyone's fine  :) Surprisingly Tola was the one that showed the most interest......but she ran away.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on May 21, 2009, 09:39 AM
Nick already has the latest on the goings-on in Proaza, (http://www.iberianature.com/spainblog/2009/05/captive-bears-mate/) except for one teensy weensy detail; the bear that came into season and mated with Furaco was Tola. (http://www.elcomerciodigital.com/oviedo/20090521/asturias/zapico-afirma-esperar-mayo-20090521.html) We'll have to wait until she emerges from next winter's hibernation to see if the pairing was successful.
Title: Re: Paca and Tola
Post by: lisa on April 12, 2010, 15:30 PM
Well, Tola has emerged from her den alone so it's back to the drawing board...........the saga continues.