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Offline Dave

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« on: March 24, 2007, 17:39 PM »
Dear All
Not sure what they are, but our bats are out and about, once again. I sometimes feel there is something odd in my taste in wildlife as I love Bats and Rooks, neither of which are particularly soft and fluffy. I have counted up to 30 bats hunting low over the Bernesga, in the fading light, I would probably guess from their size that they are Pipistrelles (Lat. Pipistrellus pipistrellus & Pipistrellus pygamaeus) (Esp Murciélago común), but due to their love of darkness, they are really difficult to identify. But to sit on the terrace in the evening watching them flit around, is a great pleasure for me.
Regards
Dave

Offline Sue

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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2007, 20:52 PM »
Hi Dave,

something to start off your xmas list is a bat detector. A "bat box" analyses the call and pitch to then identify the species!

Has anyone seen them working??

Regards, Sue
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Offline nick

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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2007, 10:22 AM »
I've used one with help a few times - Great fun. Don't know how much they are. Very briefly each type of bat emits on different range of frequencies - some species are dead easy while others, I believe, overlap and can be difficult.
I'm supposed to getting involved with a Barcelona bat census this spring.
Nick
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2007, 11:42 AM »
Greetings All,
Was only half sure that Sue wasn't joking 'bout bat box. Let us know how the census goes - d'you count 'em when they're sleeping by the so-many-to-the-square-metre method or one by one?
Would imagine great difficulty in knowing whether that one has already been counted if they're flying.
Regs.
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Dave

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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2007, 12:15 PM »
Technopat
You are right, I should have stuck with 'a lot of bats'. As far as a bat box is concerned, I have heard of them, but not seen one in action.
Regards
Dave

Offline Clive

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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2007, 14:33 PM »
Hola,

Here's a place where you can buy a bat detector.

http://www.batbox.com/Index.htm

I want one! and the software too....

Now the cool thing to do would be to have the detector outside and connected to your computer. The signal would come in and the software on the machine decodes it and tells you what just flew past.

It could be connected to a database with info about the species that is flying around the outside of the house.

Clive
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Offline Dave

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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2007, 16:46 PM »
Thanks Clive
I am going to start saving
Regards
Dave

Offline nick

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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2007, 20:13 PM »
Some notes on Spanish bats here http://www.iberianature.com/material/bats_spain.html including a video of magpies eating them
Nick
http://iberianature.com/barcelona/history-of-barcelona/spanish-civil-war-tour-in-barcelona/
Spanish Civil War Tours in Barcelona
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A guide to the environment, climate, wildlife, & nature of Spain
The Amazon/Forum Bookshop - lend us a hand
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/shop/index.htm
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2007, 23:49 PM »
Greetings Nick and All,
As so often the case iberianature.com does it again! While I was reading through, I had a flashback to a scientific journal I had read in the mid-80s - while most of you were still in nappies, I dare say - and, thanx to the wonders of internet, have been able to trace it. Turns out not to have been quite so scientific as memory had led me to believe, but an interesting read nonetheless.

The reference to bats is in the second half of the article. While not related to Spanish bats as such, I think any aspiring bat censor should read it:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_029.html


Regs.
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline nick

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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2007, 22:06 PM »
Very sensible. And to add to Dr. Merlin D. Tuttle's argument as far as I can work out, the form of rabies in bats in Europe has yet to pass onto humans (or rather, there is no recorderd case of bats in Euope passing on rabies) - unlike US Bats which have a different rabies strain.  I don't think I've made this clear in the article. So the guy in Seville cathedral did not contract rabies, but did unleash an outbreak of anti-bat hysteria.

Cheers Nick

I shouldn't do this as it was an email but I've censored out all personal info. Somebody (American MD) sent me this email last year:

"My family was vacationing in _____ in Spain in a hotel.  My two girls were sleeping in an adjoining room. The large window was wide open.. My older girl, age 16, was not sure if she was asleep or not, but became aware of flapping in the room. Two bats had entered and were flying frantically about.  My daughter woke her 13 yo sister, who was sleeping, and they esaped from the room.  The bats were chased out by my husband.
   As a physician, I know that the U.S. recommendations are to vaccinate if an adult wakes in a room with a bat and is unsure if the bat has bitten them or not.  Since I am quite relucant to do this, I am asking you  for your help:
1.  Would the girls not know if they had been bitten? (ie. does one not feel a bat bite?)
2. does the fact that there were two in the room decrease the chance that these were sick bats?
3. do bats enter rooms frequently?
3. is the rabies incidence now in Spain extremely small? your website mentions 2002 as the last case.
   Any help you can give me would be appreciated

I can't find all my replies but, it is apparenty possible to be bitten without notiicing. There is no risk of rabies transmission in Europe
Nick
http://iberianature.com/barcelona/history-of-barcelona/spanish-civil-war-tour-in-barcelona/
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A guide to the environment, climate, wildlife, & nature of Spain
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2007, 23:23 PM »
Greetings all budding bat counters,
Many, many years ago, an acquaintance of mine was bitten by a bat while sleeping. He didn't feel a thing but was woken up by the bat flapping around the room and promptly opened the window to let it out. It was only later that he noticed the blood on the sheets and a profusely bleeding big toe which wouldn't stop bleeding 'cos of the anti-coagulant the b's inject. The series of anti-rabies shots to the chest or stomach (can't remember which) were very painful.

Don't want to unleash any outbreak of anti-bat hysteria - I have spent many pleasant evenings following the magnificent acrobatics of these little furry flyers/fliers - but anyone coming into direct contact with 'em should surely take precautions.

Regs.
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline nick

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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2007, 23:27 PM »
It seems I am wrong.

European bat rabies can pass to humans.  I'd forgotten about this case. Caused much suprise across Europe. It was, as far I know, the first and so far only case.


"Rabies virus, including EBLVs, can be transmitted to man and to other animals. One such example was the tragic death of a Scottish bat conservationist from rabies caused by EBLV-type 2 in 2002. Bats can also succumb to this infection; in GB for example there have been a small number of confirmed cases of rabies in Daubenton’s due to EBLV-type 2. In addition a limited survey has shown about 3% of this species in England to be seropositive and this indicates that these bats have been exposed to the virus."
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/rabies/bat-research.htm

I'm certainly not going to cuddle one. Where was your friend? I think the injections are less gruesome these days
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 23:38 PM by nick »
Nick
http://iberianature.com/barcelona/history-of-barcelona/spanish-civil-war-tour-in-barcelona/
Spanish Civil War Tours in Barcelona
http://www.iberianature.com/
A guide to the environment, climate, wildlife, & nature of Spain
The Amazon/Forum Bookshop - lend us a hand
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/shop/index.htm
And also now The Natural History of Britain
http://iberianature.com/brita

Offline Jill

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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 23:53 PM »
I think you can get bat detectors from the RSPB, and if I remember correctly they are about fifty quid. I'm not sure how you use them to actually identify species. There are, apparently, more different species of bat in the world than of any other mammal. Somewhere around 1,000, I believe. If I remember correctly, there are 14 in the UK.
My kids and I went "bat watching" (in that other place) with an expert who had a number of bat boxes. Great fun. You can hear the bat coming towards you even when it's too dark to see it. The man was adamant that bats CAN pass rabies on to humans, and he cited a case of someone who had been bitten and who had died (in the UK). Probably the instance that you are referring to, Nick.

Jill

Offline Technopat

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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2007, 00:08 AM »
Greetings Nick and All,
My bleeding-toe guy was in another Spanish-language-speaking place not in Europe (passing ref. only). He was most insistent on the lack of pain involved in the actual bite and would not have noticed it but by chance.

RSPB - is that B for Bats or Birds? This is not the first time you folks are confusing me as to the correct identification of different animals. Here I was, blissfully convinced that although bats fly - and are in possession of some pretty snazzy hi-tech gadgets, to boot - they are NOT birds, or are they?

Mosquitoes fly, and I have seen fish do so also, and I'm pretty sure they aren't birds either.

 :-\ regs.
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Jill

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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2007, 16:31 PM »
Sorry, I was wrong. The RSPB don't sell bat detectors any more (but they do sell bat-boxes, hedgehog homes, insect theatres (!), and "toad abodes"). However, if you search for bat detectors on Google you come up with dozens of people who sell them, from about fifty quid.

Jill

Offline Technopat

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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2007, 17:47 PM »
Greetings,
Insect theatres = Flea circuses? As for the toad abode!
Regs.
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Technopat

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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2007, 15:11 PM »
Greetings All,
While commenting with a friend yesterday that I had been watching the antics of a bat for a long time yestreen - I had originally been watch loads of very low-flying swifts and/or house martins and/or swallows (once thought I could tell the difference) zapping and screeching around in broad daylight (Sp. summer time), when I saw one of them apparently falter and almost fall to the ground before realising that it was a bat, all on its todd. Anyways, the friend told me that bats in Spain are at serious risk and so I zapped off to check up on them at the usual places, i.e. goooooogling and wikipedia. Came across the following Sp. site
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/kerguelen/murcielagos.html#glosario

La mayoría de las especies de murciélago presentes en España están amenazadas, según un estudio.
MADRID, 18 (EUROPA PRESS).
Actualmente, 22 de las 25 especies de murciélago presentes en España están amenazadas, según se desprende de un reciente estudio de la Sociedad Española para la Conservación y Estudio de los Murciélagos (SECEMU). En general, las especies más amenazadas son las cavernícolas, debido sobre todo a su comportamiento gregario y al número limitado de refugios, mientras que las especies forestales, menos conocidas, gozan de una situación algo mejor.
Según SECEMU, las amenazas más frecuentes y perjudiciales para las poblaciones ibéricas de murciélagos son la destrucción de sus refugios, la pérdida de hábitats, el uso de venenos, y las molestias derivadas de la actividad humana, a lo que hay que sumar algunas medidas de conservación "inadecuadas" y la tradicional "mala prensa"que ha acompañado siempre a estos mamíferos.
La especie en mayor peligro (hasta hace poco se consideraba extinguida) es el murciélago de Nathusius, que no obstante tiene poblaciones en Asturias, Cantabria y Navarra. Otras especies en peligro son el murciélago mediano de herradura, el patudo y el de Bechstein.
Según señalaban recientemente responsables de SECEMU a la revista "Quercus", "es preciso proteger los refugios donde se establecen colonias, estudiar la distribución de las diferentes especies y la evolución de sus poblaciones en las áreas peor prospectadas, reducir el empleo de biocidas, conservar los hábitats naturales y llevar a cabo campañas educativas que destaquen los aspectos reales de este grupo animal y borren su infundada mala fama".


and which, as well as the glossary, also had links to other Sp. and UK sites, including one to the BCT, where I got the following (passing ref. only - necessary background info.):

PRESS RELEASE - 18 May 2007
UK bats still under threat from people ignoring the law

The Bat Conservation Trust (BCT) is calling on the public and the building sector to do more to safeguard bats, as current figures reveal that bat-related crime levels are similar to those reported in 2003.

Declining bat populations made it necessary to give legal protection to all UK bats and their roosting places, whether they are in residence at the time or not. This protection also makes it an offence to block roost entrance and exit holes without first obtaining formal authorisation.

Regs.
Technopat

Ps.
Nick - how's the B. bat census going?
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline lisa

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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2007, 22:21 PM »
Bat-related crime levels  :-\ :-\ :-\

Dave, do you know how many species of bats there are in León?
Anyone else know in their area?
We have 20 in the Picos.
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Offline Clive

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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2007, 22:28 PM »
Hola,

So After some searching i have come to the conclusion that I absolutely do not know how many bat species there are in the Sierra de Grazalema.

If any can point me to a source of information I would appreciate it...

More than ever I am looking into one of those bat boxes linked to the computer and uploaded real time to the forum....(a bit like the eagle web cam but without the images of chick bullying and shredded blackbird).

Clive
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The beautiful town of Ronda, the City of Dreams?

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Offline lisa

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« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2007, 07:39 AM »
www.picos-accommodation.co.uk
Accommodation, ski touring, snowshoeing, walking and info on the flora and fauna of the Picos de Europa.
SAVE SPANISH BEARS!
And now,
The Picos de Europa
Your complete English guide to these beautiful mountains of Northern Spain.