Iberianature Forum

Spanish mammals (lynx, bear, wolves, cabras, moufflon and the little furry creatures too). => Mammals of Iberia => Topic started by: nick on July 02, 2007, 17:50 PM

Title: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on July 02, 2007, 17:50 PM
Following on from this http://www.iberianature.com/material/wolf.html#catalonia

is this piece in today's Avui.

If you speak Spanish or French I'm sure you'll get the gist.

Confirmen la presència de quatre llops al Pirineu català
La recuperació natural del llop a Catalunya comença a ser una realitat. Després de 75 anys d'absència forçada per la caça i l'enverinament, aquest emblemàtic animal ha fet els primers passos per tornar a formar part del paisatge d'algunes zones del Pirineu i Prepirineu català

La recuperació natural del llop a Catalunya comença a ser una realitat. Després de 75 anys d'absència forçada per la caça i l'enverinament, aquest emblemàtic animal ha fet els primers passos per tornar a formar part del paisatge d'algunes zones del Pirineu i Prepirineu català. Tot i que encara no hi ha constància de cap grup estable, ni cap reproducció, l'any passat es va confirmar la presència de quatre exemplars de llop en una àmplia franja als voltants del Cadí.

Les primeres observacions recents de llops a Catalunya es van produir precisament a prop de Saldes fa quatre anys, tot i que cal suposar que abans havien travessat el Pirineu pel Ripollès o la Cerdanya. A principis de l'any 2004, el departament de Medi Ambient va confirmar l'existència d'un exemplar al Cadí, que molt possiblement procedia de les poblacions originàries d'Itàlia i establertes anys enrere al sud de França.

Al 2005, les anàlisis genètiques de les femtes localitzades a prop de Saldes van ratificar la presència -permanent o intermitent- de dos exemplars de llop diferents.

L'any passat es van verificar 11 atacs a ramats d'ovelles i vaques del Cadí

"L'any passat després d'un ampli programa de seguiment i l'anàlisi de 35 excrements susceptibles de ser de llop es va confirmar l'existència de quatre exemplars diferents", ha explicat Jordi Ruiz Olmo, cap del servei de Protecció de la Fauna. Els quatre exemplars identificats són mascles, "una situació típica de les poblacions de grans mamífers que comencen a colonitzar terrenys nous", ha explicat Ruiz Olmo.

Els animals es mouen principalment a la zona del Cadí però també han estat confirmats desplaçaments des del Ripollès fins al Solsonès i l'Alt Urgell. El balanç de seguiment indica que el 2006 es van verificar 11 atacs de llop a Catalunya, 10 a ramats d'ovelles i un més a vaques, tots al Cadí. El balanç va ser de 6 ovelles mortes, 8 de ferides, 2 de desaparegudes, així com un vedell mort.

A més, els tècnics de Medi Ambient han confirmat altres casos singulars com la predació de llops sobre un isard a Fontalba-Queralbs (Ripollès) i s'estudia la veracitat d'uns albiraments de llops al coll d'Ares, Alinyà (Alt Urgell). Fa dues setmanes es va confirmar un atac de llops a Pedra i Coma i aquesta setmana s'han fet noves observacions a Saldes.

En tots els casos, el departament de Medi Ambient ha indemnitzat els danys causats i ha ofert la col·laboració als ramaders per protegir els ramats. Durant els anys 2005 i 2006 s'han repartit 13 gossos ensinistrats per protegir els ramats.

Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: steveT on July 02, 2007, 19:08 PM
Nick,

Super news - thanks!

SteveT
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: steveT on July 02, 2007, 20:11 PM
Nick,

The popoulation is presumed to have come from the north, Italy via France. I guess in the past the southern Pyreenes where the limit for Northern European wolves. The Iberia wolf is a subspecies. In the past there must have been little hybridisation at the interface? Various environmental factors must have limited encroachment by either group. With no or very few Iberian wolves in the east of Spain, will they colonise empty niches further south now they haave returned?

I've also been fascinated why the Iberia wolf during its 'reconquesta' over the last 20 years hasn't moved in to the Pyrennes. They have been pesent in the Basque Country and in other areas SE  of the western Pyreenes, for some time now. So why did they not move into the Pyrennes from the west and on to the Catalonian Pyrennes in the east? Last summer I quiizzed rangers in El bosque de Irati to find out if their was any evidence for wolves ..... the answer was a definate no. So it's taken 'northern' wolves, travelling large distances crossing large rivers,  alot of intensively farmed land, urban areas and motorways to recolonise the pyrennes....

It will be interesting to see what happens next....

SteveT
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Technopat on July 02, 2007, 20:23 PM
Greetings Nick,
Thanx!
Would that (Alt Urgell) be up near Simon's neck of the woods?
Regs.
Technopat

Ps

Hope you haven’t made a start on the translation you spoke of re. the signatus people on wolves at http://www.iberianature.com/material/wolf.html#catalonia, ‘cos I found I had a few moments to spare and got me teeth into it without thinking (it’s rough and ready so please feel free to modify it – I won’t be offended in the slightest! You’re the pro. :)

We reckon that’s a good summing up of the situation of wolves. Well done!

We’d just like to point something out regarding the damage caused by wolves. Actually it’s only an anecdote, but we once heard the Director of Agriculture for the Autonomous Region of Asturias comment that one year (we think it might have been 2000) Asturian farmers had reported more sheep killings that year than the total number of sheep in the Region. That is, wolves had not only killed all the sheep in Asturias, but also ones that didn’t even exist. As an anecdote it illustrates the picaresca (roguery) involved in claiming damages, and as such, a warning as to how one should treat official statistics with caution.

There is, however, no doubt that wolves cause damage to livestock, which is to be expected, given that:
a) They need to eat;
b) Livestock are easier prey than wild animals;
c) The number of wild animals is in constant decline;
d) Livestock are left to roam without herdsmen to watch over them them, because the latter are often part-time/amateur farmers who work in factories during the week while their animals are left loose in the mountains and only herded at weekends.

Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on July 02, 2007, 23:01 PM
Hi Steve,

If you follow through the iberianature link above you'll find some more info on the chronology of this expansion from Italy. Posterier to writing this last year I met a French wolf expert in December who told me doubted there would be a major move into Catalonia for the time being as wolves along the "French corridor" are constantly being shot. The expansion is very weak in terms of numbers. We shall see.
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lisa on July 04, 2007, 07:19 AM
Thanks for the Catalan lesson Nick. 

Durant els anys 2005 i 2006 s'han repartit 13 gossos ensinistrats per protegir els ramats.
"gossos ensinistrats" I'm not sure of though I've have managed to understand the rest of the article. Does it mean livestock guardian dogs?
To what extent are dogs still used in Catalonia?

(http://www.murtois.com/album_mastini/foto_grandi/kore%27%20picc.jpg)


Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on July 04, 2007, 09:05 AM
That's right. It means literally trained dogs to protect flocks - I think Leonese mastifs

gos-dog
ramat-flock
ensinistrat-trained

I guess the only place where they are used for their true function is now and in this area...but you sometimes see flocks with a mastif elsewhere - prortection against humans and dogs I guess

I'm not trying to thrust Catalan down anyone's throat. I happily also link to Galician sites. Basque would be quite another matter.
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lisa on July 04, 2007, 09:50 AM
So do they not use Pyreneans (mastín pireneo)? See pic. above. Here's a photo of a mastín leones that I've whipped from Mastín Español International, (http://www.mastininfo.com/) (which I see has an article of yours on wolves.)  Maybe we should start a new thread on these brilliant dogs, possibly under "Trees"  :biggrin:
Dogs are still used here (though not as much as they should be), spike-studded collars and all.

Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on July 04, 2007, 10:33 AM
Promise to confirm tonight
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on July 04, 2007, 16:37 PM
Hello all,

I've just picked up on this topic thanks to Lisa!

I remember the reports of the first wolf truning up from Italy and I'm really pleased to hear of more. The westernmost areas which they seem to have settled in, the Alt Urgel and Solsones are in the next rive rbasin, that of the Segre, eastwards of oursleves. But the Reserva Natural de Serra Boumort sepatares the two. Thanks for the enquiry Technopat!

The Boumort is notorious for its population of red deer, the only such in Catalonia, and I wonder of this would bode well for the wolves if they moved over (perhaps less so for the deer, but in my experience there's plenty of 'em to go round - a vist during the rut in September/October is incredible!)

I've been wondering about Steve T's query about population shift. I guess that migration are driven either by overpopulation, and bay that  include reduced sustaianability of habitat following human development. But that the migration will tend to be proximal, i.e. to the next suitable area as the wolves can't 'plan' a long treck. In this case it seems that once the wolves were on the hoof, or rather paw, they kept moving until they found a friendly turf. And I suppose it's no coincidence that these migrants are single males. Are the females in breeding trim more conservative?

Pyrenean Mastins are used sometimes. Our village shepherdess (she who adopts wild boarlets) had one for many years. She used to leave her herd of about 250 goats with Ben (Big Ben - geddit?) and a real sheepdog all dag long sometimes. Ben never seemed to get tha hang of actual herding, though, he was more in a supervisory role, he would have looked good with a clipboard under his arm. I'm sure you all know the type!

Mmmm?

Questions questions.

Simon

PS for the novice reader of Catalan: 'X' is pronounced 'ch' as in 'Sh . . . you know who!' Many apparently unpronouncable works make sense if you say them out loud like this - don't do this if your in a public Internet space though!!

Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Technopat on July 04, 2007, 19:35 PM
Greetings Simon and All,
By "Many apparently unpronouncable works" I take it you mean stuff like "Don Quixote", unless, of course you were referring to names like Pedro Xímenez or Xabier, or possibly even Galician words like Xunta. ;D

Be that as it m., like SteveT, re. population shift of wolves, I too am intrigued - my natural disbelief of many 'expert' opinions coming to the fore here (especially re. DNA ) - as to why Italian wolves would head north-ish, then west-ish and then south-ish (I would imagine over more than one generation - meaning some kind of female accompaniment) through relatively man-made territory, when it would surely be more profitable for them to head northeast-ish into less-populated and more-wooded regions of Eastern and/or Central Europe, or words to that effect.

Likewise, surely the effects of climate change would make 'em seek such densely-wooded regions - even if there are hunters - rather than the increasingly desertized Ib. Pen.?

Puzzled regs.
Technopat
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on July 04, 2007, 20:43 PM
That's right Simon, Pyrenean Mastiffs not Leonese mastiffs are the ones used.
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Clive on July 04, 2007, 21:06 PM
Hola,

Well, in Grazalema the farmers have Grazalema mastiffs... They look just like Pyrenean mastiffs only they look more fed up in June, July and August because they get hotter, don't know why they are in a hot field and have never seen a wolf....

But seriously, these dogs have been bred here for a very long time and my neighbour would bite your arm off if you mentioned that they had been in the Pyrenees for longer...

maybe a new thread is needed for the bloodlines and history of Iberian working canines (and felines?)

Clive
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: steveT on July 04, 2007, 23:38 PM
Oh yes .... and working ostriches......

I guess you've seen the photo............

SteveT
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on July 10, 2007, 22:50 PM
Just a very quick note on the letter 'X' I was thinking of works like 'peix', 'guix', 'La Garrotxa' or, best of all 'Xampany!'

Glug glug!

Simon

Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Technopat on July 10, 2007, 23:14 PM
 ... and maybe even xin, xin!

And Xixón, and ...

Regs.
Technopat
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on July 11, 2007, 05:25 AM
Yes, even xin xin! It would be a sin to xin xin on sin so sorry! Simon
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lisa on October 12, 2007, 20:53 PM
Fundació Fauna have started a campaign to get these wolves protected - Projecte Llop (Proyecto Lobo) (http://www.fundaciofauna.org/campanalobo.htm) Get signing everyone!
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: tonyninfas on October 12, 2007, 22:11 PM
Signed, and details posted to the Tortosa Forum.
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lisa on February 06, 2009, 07:49 AM
From lamanyana.es; (http://www.lamanyana.es/web/html/lanoticia.html?id=88968&seccio=Comarcas&fecha=2009-02-04&sortida=03:00:00)

Quote
El Estado planea reintroducir lobos en los Pirineos y seguirá apoyando el plan de los osos

Lleida - Gerard del Castillo  2009-02-04
 

 
El Estado español, con el apoyo de las autonomías con parte de su territorio en los Pirineos (Catalunya, Aragón y Navarra), planea reintroducir ejemplares de lobo ibérico en la cordillera para reforzar su exigua población en esta zona. El Gobierno no se ha dado un plazo para esta liberación, ya que su primer objetivo es consolidar la reintroducción de osos en los Pirineos, plan que no sólo no descartará sino que quiere reforzar.

 
 
Según el presidente de la asociación ecologista aranesa Avalon, Carlos Montero, la directora general de Medi Natural, Núria Buenaventura le anunció, en el encuentro que mantuvieron el pasado 27 de enero, que las administraciones “no piensan dar ni un paso atrás en la reintroducción del oso pardo en los Pirineos” y que quieren, además, “reintroducir ejemplares de lobo en la cordillera”.
Esta liberación de lobos se podría realizar en la Serra del Cadí, donde en los últimos años se han detectado ejemplares procedentes de los Alpes. La reintroducción no se haría sólo en el Cadí, sino que también se liberarían lobos en otros puntos de los Pirineos.
Montero se reunió con la directora general para hacerle llegar las sugerencias de Avalon para mejorar el Programa Life de Reintroducción de Osos. Su principal reivindicación es la creación de un consorcio donde estarían representados las administraciones y los ecologistas para gestionar este programa. Un consorcio en el que, según Montero, la Generalitat no estaría interesada.
Los ecologistas piden que el Govern se dote de un equipo técnico de seguimiento; la puesta en marcha de una infraestructura para desarrollar actividades ecoturísticas relacionadas con los oso; prohibir las batidas de jabalíes; instalar paneles informativos en las zonas oseras; y construir en Les un centro de interpretación y estudio del oso.
LA MAÑANA intentó ayer, sin éxito, contrastar la informaciónde de Avalon con Núria Buenaventura.
 

 :o So, not only is the State reinforcing the bear reintroduction programme in the Catalan Pyrenees, they're also planning on reintroducing Canis lupus signatus. :o
I'm shocked (but not as much as the farmers will be  >:D)
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on February 09, 2009, 20:56 PM
Hi Lisa,

That sounds like great news, apart from the fact that I can't find anything about it on any of the Catalan environment sites; either it's too soon to say or too good to be true. :'(

Cynically sorry Simon
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lisa on February 09, 2009, 22:03 PM
Or completely made up or someone's let the wolf cat out of the bag too soon. I don't know if there's any news on the subspecies status of signatus, but it seems like a strange idea to me. More like uncoordinated and unjoined up thinking.
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on February 09, 2009, 23:06 PM
Yes, large pinch of salt until we hear otherwise
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Technopat on February 09, 2009, 23:35 PM
Greetings All,
Very confusing :noidea: even fishy, I'd say (Sp. anyone?)
Do any of our Catalan Fraction iberianatureforumers have any inside info re.
Quote
el presidente de la asociación ecologista aranesa Avalon, Carlos Montero
who seems to be the source of the whole tinglao (En. anyone?).

Will-wait-patiently-for-further-developments regs.,
Technopat
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Technopat on February 09, 2009, 23:41 PM
This is the nearest I've got so far (from October 2008):
La Generalitat y el Conselh Generau d'Aran acuerdan implantar un chip a todos los osos para evitar ataques

Ecologistas denuncian al Síndic y al Conselh Arán por intentar cazar a Hvala puesto que pertenece a una especie protegida
http://www.lavanguardia.es/premium/publica/publica?COMPID=53567051591&ID_PAGINA=22088&ID_FORMATO=9&PAGINACIO=1&TEXT=
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on February 10, 2009, 00:21 AM
Hi Guys and Gals,

Now I'm getting really confused. An article in Avui (http://www.avui.cat/barcelona/detail.php?id=53205) refers to the meeting last week, but the subject appears to be entirely about the bears, plus the fact that AVALON?s blog (http://www.avalonaran.org/node/86) doesn't have a metion of wolves in its recent news roll. :noidea:

Regs

A very Sleepless Simon
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on February 10, 2009, 09:43 AM
So it seems the journalist got it wrong. He meant bears. Frankly, I don't think they need to reintroduce wolves. If allowed they'll get here of their own accord.
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on March 05, 2009, 06:26 AM
That's right. Has there been any more news about the one that arrived from Italy a few years ago?

Simon
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on March 05, 2009, 17:31 PM
Hi Simon, just to set the record straight on this one (I think you are referring to the the famous Cadi wolf)

It did not arrive from Italy but DNA tests have shown that it is genetically Italian in origin, forming part of an expansion over a number generations out from the Apennines. The Apennine population began to expand in several directions from the early 1990's. It moved north into the Italian and Swiss Alps; north-east into the French Alps and Lyon, and east towards the Pyrenees, reaching the Maritime Alps near Nice by 1996, Saboya by 1998. An individual was detected between Areja and French Cerdenya by August 1998 in the Madres Massif, just to the north of Canigó, and finally by 2004 into the Cadí range.

The Cadi wolf paired up with a female dog which was shot by wardens to prevent hybrids being born. As far as I know it is currently alone. There may be as many as four lone wolves, all male, in the Catalan Pyrenees which have made their way from French Cerdanya. However, there are grounds for some pessimism as the French population is under serious pressure from hunting and so individuals are only arriving in dribs and drabs.

Note: The last Catalan wolf was shot in Terra Alta in the south of the Principality in 1929 (1935?), though the animal is thought to have disappeared from the Sierra de Cadí more than 100 years ago.

http://www.iberianature.com/material/wolf.html#catalonia
http://www.iberianature.com/mammals/wolves/

And see also Avui article at start of this thread:

http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php?topic=455.0

Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on March 19, 2009, 10:32 AM
Thanks for this snippet Nick, the subtlety of the exodus went over my head!

Ta

Simon
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Joerg on April 20, 2009, 09:06 AM
Hello,

My name is Joerg. I`m a wolf friend from Germany.

How many wolves gives in Catalonia in this time?

Is the wolf protection in Catalonia ?

Regrads  :sign:
Joerg
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lisa on April 24, 2009, 21:12 PM
Hi Joerg, welcome  :sign:

Did you see Nick's previous post?

There may be as many as four lone wolves, all male, in the Catalan Pyrenees which have made their way from French Cerdanya. However, there are grounds for some pessimism as the French population is under serious pressure from hunting and so individuals are only arriving in dribs and drabs.

Note: The last Catalan wolf was shot in Terra Alta in the south of the Principality in 1929 (1935?), though the animal is thought to have disappeared from the Sierra de Cadí more than 100 years ago.

http://www.iberianature.com/material/wolf.html#catalonia
http://www.iberianature.com/mammals/wolves/

And see also Avui article at start of this thread:

http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php?topic=455.0



Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Simon on April 26, 2009, 10:23 AM
Hi Joerg,

Welcome to the Forum.

There is a campaign (http://www.fundaciofauna.org/proyectwolf.htm) to help save the wolf population here in Catalonia. Furthermore, it has details in German!

Looking forward to hearing more from you on this topic :sign: - most of us are British and envy the fauna of your homeland!

Regards

Simon
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: Joerg on May 15, 2009, 14:22 PM
@lisa  and @Simon

Many thanks for your informations.

Information over the German wolves can you find under:
http://www.wolfswelten.de/forum/index.php

and

http://lausitz-wolf.foren-city.de/

Regards Joerg
Title: Please help the wolves in France with your protest!
Post by: Joerg on May 17, 2009, 08:30 AM
Hello,

I´m very unhappy over the dead from the French wolf.

Please send your protest over the wolf kill  an the French Ministry of Environmental Protection.

Link:  http://www.loup.org/spip/La-louve-abattue-portait-des,977.html

You must confirm the entry in die list over the e-mail -link.

Please help the wolves in France with your protest!

Many thanks.

Joerg
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lucy on April 09, 2010, 20:27 PM
Some recent news about Catalan wolves in El Punt, including a photo, shot in the Parc Natural del Cadí-Moixeró.  11 have been seen there since 2003, including one female.

The director of the park wants to follow the example of the Sierra de Culebra and use the wolf as a way of attracting tourists, and there's talk of re-introductions.  The livestock owners have misgivings.

The area has a large population of chamois and deer though, as alternative prey.

http://www.elpunt.cat/noticia/article/1-territori/11-mediambient/154297-lalt-bergueda-veu-en-el-llop-un-atractiu-per-a-un-turisme-de-lnatura-i-paisatger.html


(http://www.elpunt.cat/imatges/30/87/alta/780_008_3087878_6465fd3105d3d37f4e0a24a230cfcd6b.jpg)
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: nick on April 10, 2011, 16:17 PM
Latest wolf numbers for Catalonia:

http://www.iberianature.com/spainblog/2011/04/wolves-expaning-in-catalonia/

Slowly...but they're coming.
Title: Re: Wolves in Catalonia
Post by: lucy on April 11, 2011, 10:12 AM
Boars of Collserola, watch out!