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Scalibor collars & Leishmaniasis

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Offline Maria

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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2009, 09:20 AM »
HI Tony

You mention the beach. Is the beach a beach by the sea, river or lake. How long ago did she contract the disease?

I only ask because the word sand fly is does not mean it is restricted to coastal area.

This is a paragraph taken from the leishmaniasis site
Quote
The name sand fly is a misnomer and wrongly suggests to the layman that he or she may be at risk of leishmaniasis while on holiday on the beach. There is further confusion because in some parts of the world midges (genus Culicoides) or black flies (family Simulidae) are called sand flies. A distinction must therefore be made for the vectors of the leishmaniases which are correctly termed phlebotomine sand flies. They are grouped in the suborder Nematocera of the order Diptera (two-winged flies). Below that, the classification is not universally agreed, but they are generally put in the Family Psychodidae, subfamily Phlebotominae. Six genera are generally recognised of which only two are of medical importance, namely Phlebotomus of the Old World (divided into 12 subgenera), and Lutzomyia of the New World, (divided into 25 subgenera and species groups). All proven vectors of the leishmaniases are species of these two genera.

Offline tonyninfas

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« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2009, 09:26 AM »
Hi Maria

Sorry tohave been so long replying but we have the family here at present so am only accessing the net once a day (some excuse).

Anyway, it was 2 years ago and the beach was on the Mediterranean side of a strip of land between the sea and a salt lagoon.  Hope that that helps.

She had to have 2 injections a day for about a month I think, and then 2 Alopurinol tablets for a while.  It is now held steady by one tablet a day.

Tony

Offline peanut

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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2009, 10:32 AM »
Hi all,
We live south of the gredos in Villanueva de la vera and have seen lots of cases of leishmaniasis in the area. We use scalibor collars,citronella and have surrounded our terrace where we and the dogs are at night with citronella and pyretheum rich plants AND hung up bags of water as reccomended by the locals. We didnt take these measures last year and so far we are suffering far fewer bites despite using less spray on ourselves. So hopefully this will work for the dogs too.
The scalibor collars work extremely well against ticks, though they take a couple of days to get going. After that any ticks we have found have failed to attatch. Our local kennel owner suggested replacing the collars after 5 months as their strength trails off in the last month
We visited Monfrague recently and met a lot of visitors from France, L.O.G.,and other parts of northern Europe who were completely unaware of the problem and had unprotected dogs- perhaps some canine health advice for travelling in Spain is needed (might make the campsites a bit less busy too!!)

Offline Maria

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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2009, 11:10 AM »
Hi Peanut

We got Khumbu from a breeder in Pinares Navalperal in the Gredos, not sure if you know the area but they reckon they dont have leish because of altitude, temperature and wind, there is a breeze most of the time?

Interesting what your locals say. What do the bags of water do? and how often do they need to be refilled? The citronella where do you get that from? and what are the names of some Pyretheum rich plants? I would like to give this a go, its great news that you are suffering less bites, hopefully the dogs are to.

We have just in the past few days started getting the Tiger mosquito here, first time ever!! Maybe some of your ideas would keep them at bay to?

I agree that there really should be some sort of advice in travelling with pets to leishmaniasis areas. I believe that leish is present in these countries, Spain, Portugal, France, Italy and Greece!

Tony thanks for the info on where your beach was. Funny how different vets treat the dogs differently. Our dogs that have been treated for leish have had 2 injections every other day, followed by 1 Alopurinol and 1 Levamisol tablets.

What were the symptoms when your dog first contracted leish?

Maria

Simon

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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2009, 11:24 AM »
Hi,

I think I may have caused a panic on the sheep tick link to Leish. I'm sure I saw this on a very very lurid poster in my vet's waiting room. So this may mean several possibilities: a) my memory is incorrect and I really am as demented as Mrs S says I am! b) the poster, sponsored no doubt by a pharmaceutical company, was making false claims in order to panic more people into buying the product, c) Wiki and the Leish site are wrong.

Any, none or all of these could be true, but putting my synaptic insufficiency ('tic' geddit? Oh well . . .) on one side for the moment; The Wiki entry appears to have been authored in the USA, judgeing from the langauge and the references used, the Spanish langauge version appears either to be a translation of the English or at least leans heavily on it. We know, as Peanut has just underlined, that the English speaking world is almost completely unaware of Leish - when I first eard about it from my Spanish vet about 10 years ago I couldn't find any reference to it in any English reference book that I coud find, including te O.E.D. or by Google search  :speechless:. So it may be at least possible that Wiki is not up to speed on the issue - something one should always remember when using Wiki (see the Sunfish topic).

I've just looked at the Leish web site and, again, no metion of transmission through ticks. So I guess this is the case. I suppose we are just lucky not to live in a sandfly zone, but beware, as the abstract that I found earlier (above) warned of an increase in affected areas as a consequence of climate change!

Sorry to have sounded blazée, Maria, of course it's not easy to combat mosquitoes by behavioural means. All I was meaning is that if it is possible it's worth the try. I always look at what local people do to adapt to their conditions; Berber arabs wearing head-to-toe cloaks in the Sahara, or folk in Tse-tse fly zones never going out at night, that sort of thing. Here in Catalonia all of the traditional dwellings have the living accommodation on the first floor and above - it's very curious to go to Tarragona's 'new' barrios, which came about when Andalusians migrated here to build and then work in the huge petrochemical factories from the mid-fifties on; all of their houses are single storey, just like where you are by the sound of it!

Regs

Simon

Simon

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« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2009, 11:37 AM »
Just one more thing:

Maria, I'm sorry I didn't pick up on the difficulty you had with making 'smart' links. In fact my instructions were ambiguous! Here's the improved version:

Copy the web address of the page you want to link onto your clipboard
Write your text in the post and then highlight it
Click on the 'Insert Hyperlink' icon in the selection above
You will see two sets of code within square brackets before and after the text tat you highlighted (I can't type an example here or it turns itself into a link!)
In the first set of code/brackets type an '=' between the code 'url' and the closing square bracket, ']',
Then paste your link between the '=' sign and the ']' bracket.
NB don't leave any gaps or spaces when you do this.

Sorry to have confused you.

Simon

Offline peanut

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« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2009, 17:30 PM »
Hi Maria ,Simon and others
No, I dont know Pinares Naval, and I cant find it on my map. Where is it near? We visited the plataforma, near the laguna grande at the end of March and there was  quite a temperature difference between here-17 c and there-4c Its only 2 hours away, but a bit higher up!
According to my neighbour the bags should be half filled with water and hung from the beams/roof of the terrace at about 2-3 meter intervals. I thought they would be less obtrusive above the beams,on which they now sit, though he said this wouldnt work. (If I need to suspend them in the future i may decorate them with felt tips,increasing their allure as they swing in the breeze)
I dont think the bags need refilling - Ive seen lots of green ones about!
Lemon scented geranium is good for citronella; marigolds for pyretheum. Judith found a good website on many suitable plants, but shes taken the details to England! Weve also been told that bunches of various dried herbs work thyme, basil, rosemary. Again  decided to be a little different and add basil to the pots on the terrace
I dont know why or how well these things work-perhaps because the terrace is so crowded theres no room for insects- but lots of locals insist that they do

Offline Maria

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« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2009, 21:44 PM »
Hi all

Ive had a few visits from my vet nurse and vet friends from the UK and they dont know much about Leish at all, I can only assume its not pushed in their training, but like you say Simon I think things will have to change as I had read somewhere, amongst all the research, that Leish is in the UK now because of pets being able to travel so easily. Pets are being infected when they travel, the owners are not made aware of problems they may encounter by the vets in the UK when passports are put together and usually by the time the pet is properly diagnosed the disease is well advanced. One of the articles mentioned that with the temperatures on the up in the UK, sand flys will begin to move in and because infected animals are already in the country then the Leish will be spread, something like that anyway.

Simon I didnt think you were being blazee at all, im sorry you thought I thought etc etc, but we have now been keeping them in doors, much to their disgust! I agree the locals know how to live in their country, most of the houses in the campo here are just the one floor. We shall also be trying some of Peanuts suggestions when I can find somewhere that sells lemon scented geraniums and the wind stops blowing so I can hang some bags of water up and hopefully when Judith gets back from the UK I shall take a look at the website she has for plants.

Peanut, The town is called Navalperal De Pinares its a town in the province of Ávila about 80k from Madrid, you maybe able to goole map it?

I shall try and remember how to do the link thing but like the 'confused' link you put on ha ha.


Offline peanut

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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2009, 10:36 AM »
Hi Maria
Judith is back but has lost the site! If you put in "mosquito repellent plants " as she did you should get lots of sites. Our plants seem to be working really well.

Offline Maria

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« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2009, 10:56 AM »
Hi Peanut

Thats great many thanks for your help.

Maria

Offline kate

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« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2012, 11:44 AM »
Hello
I've been reading all these posts about Leichmaniosis and finding it very helpful but still am a bit confused about what is the best way to protect my dogs. I also spoke to a vet here and as we were speaking in Catalan I also came away still with some questions. So although I see these posts are rather old I hope someone is there who can help.
I have three dogs, two of them just recently brought from the UK. We live in Granollers which apparently is a high risk area for the sandflys.
At the moment I have no protection for the dogs and need to do something urgently.
Options seem to be vaccine, regular oral drops, collar, Advantix or similar.

what I am not sure about is whether it is safe to use collar AND vaccine. Or collar AND Advantix etc etc.  I am worried about toxicity and balanced against this is big worry about the disease. I have two border collies. One is 10 and the other 16. Neither of them sleep outside. But we also have a native dog - a Springer Spaniel who does sleep outdoors and as she belongs to my partner I don't have the authority to bring her inside  ::)

I already use Advantix for flea and tick control so this is something but do I stop this if I get collars?
And does anyone here have experience of the vaccine which is new ?

Thanks  Kate

Offline Maria

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« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2012, 17:26 PM »
Hi Kate

Ive used just Advantix on my dogs and it seems to be the best precaution. Ive now had my husky vaccinated against leish and will be using a scalibor collar alongside. The vaccine does not 100% cover the dog hence the scalibor collar to use also. But should the dog catch leish after having the vaccine it will be a less severe form than if unvaccinated. The vaccine I believe is around 90something% effective and the scalibor collar is around 80something% effective and Advantix is in the 90s also but less than the vaccine. So the dog would have to be very unlucky having been vaccinated and wearing a scalibor collar to contract leish. It is very complicated I know. I think if you are using Advantix then you dont need to use the collar.

Hope this helps someway in answering your questions.

Maria

Offline kate

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« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2012, 17:51 PM »
Dear Maria

thanks so much for your prompt reply.
I have just been to the vet and think I have decided to go for 1/ Advantix + Vaccine  2/ Advantix + nothing  3/ Collar + nothing. 

This is because we have three dogs and 1/ is 10 and active   2/ is 16 and I don't want to load her system with more stuff   3/ is my partners dog and he doesn't believe anything is necessary!

You say you use Advantix but for the husky have decided to use a collar - is there a reason for this? 
The vet said it can be either/or with these two but I have no criteria for deciding which is best except that I don't like using something that lies on on the skin. At least with Advantix you can spread the load of drug going in.

Thanks  Kate   


Simon

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« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2012, 15:44 PM »
You say you use Advantix but for the husky have decided to use a collar - is there a reason for this? 
The vet said it can be either/or with these two but I have no criteria for deciding which is best except that I don't like using something that lies on on the skin. At least with Advantix you can spread the load of drug going in.

Thanks  Kate   



Hello Kate (and Maria - long time no speak!)

I use Avantix for my husky becaiuse they have such thick guard coats on their neck collare are very hard to live with, not just for their looks but it's difficult to get the right tension to stay. That's also the reason you always see huskies with harnesses  :dancing:

Regs

Simon


Offline Maria

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« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2012, 17:17 PM »
Hi Kate & Simon (yes far too long no speak, must sort that out)

Sorry I confused you, I do that to myself all the time :speechless: Before the husky had the vaccine I used Advantix 1) because I think its the best protection out there and 2) as Simon says huskies have such thick coats collars are not good. I was going to try the collar on him alongside the vaccine, but these past couple of days im beginning to change my mind. The tick population is massive around here at the moment and what I have been using does not seem to be working so im going to put him back on to Advantix.

Before you get the vaccine for your 1 dog (I think you are correct about your older dog not having the vaccine) just check that your vet agrees that Advantix can be used along with the vaccine. Some vets may have different ideas.

If you are on facebook you can find more information here https://www.facebook.com/virbacleishmaniosisespana.

Our black lab died of leish, he used a collar. Our leonberger contracted leish whilst wearing a collar but with treatment he never had any problems, he has since died from osteosarcoma. Both these dogs were my partners and already in the household before I turned up and starting treating them all with Advantix. The husky has been on advantix since he was old enough and until the vaccine came along but will go back on advantix and our new addition is not old enough yet to have the vaccine but is on advantix.

I hope this has not confused you further.

Maria

Offline kate

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« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2012, 17:37 PM »
Dear Maria and Simon

thank you both for those replies. I am beginning to get clear. I should have also said that my partners Springer Spaniel has had bad reactions in the past to Advantix and Frontline - last summer she travelled to the UK for the first time and of course got high doses of lots of things before being allowed to enter. She then had the worst case of fleas I have ever seen and itched for months. I used Advantix but it had no effect and she seemed to get an allergic reaction. So that is why she will have the collar.

My partner had never heard of leichmaniosis before in spite of being Spanish and in a bad area. So of course he thinks it is not such a risk. He asked some other Spanish people with dogs and they hadn't heard of it either. All my information - apart from the vet - has come from UK people with dogs here. Some part of the information campaign isn't getting through to people.

I was down by the river last night and it started to get dark - raced home with anxious worries about my collie. It's hard to get a balance between being careful and being paranoid.

Maria - sorry about your dog who died with osteosarcoma - my old collie was diagnosed with this 4 years ago and it was extremely distressing. Eventually they changed their minds and said it was arthritis and she is still here but I remember the terrible time of worry about her. 

many thanks for the help

Kate


Offline Maria

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« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2012, 12:34 PM »
Hi Kate

Glad things are getting a little clearer for you. It is mind blowing.

I agree there needs to be more education and information out there for the Spanish. People in cities seem fully aware of it but the country folk is a different story.

Our dogs love to sleep out at night during the hot months, so I let them. Ive decided on quality of life, shutting a husky in a house is not good especially if im not there  :speechless:. Im doing my best to protect them but they need to be able to enjoy their time too.

The dog who died of osteosarcoma was diagnosed with arthritis to start with, the opposite way round to yours, im so pleased your old collie is still with you and they got it wrong, osteosarcoma is an awful thing to go through.

Good luck with your dogs.

Maria

Offline kate

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« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2012, 12:56 PM »
Dear Maria

thanks for your message.  Sorry about your dog with osteosarcoma - when I got the (wrong) diagnosis it was a terrible trauma and I had to make decisions about amputation and everything very quickly. thank god I decided against as it did turn out that the diagnosis was wrong. But for some people this would obviously be an option - I knew it wasn't for us. 

Sadly my dog Blue  died a few days ago - sort of old age things I suppose . I certainly hope it wasn't brought on by the move over to Catalunya. Back legs got worse and worse and kept letting her down etc etc.  I was on holiday in Girona region and staying in a wonderful place owned by an english couple. Couldn't have been better for her and the vet who came round to help her on her way was from Canis Vets in Figueres and was wonderful. I thank god I wasn't in the town where I live as the vets there seemed unwilling to do home visits for euthanastia. She is now buried here under apple trees and with the song of the nightingale every night. The owners have been fantastic and I can visit her any time I want to.

Re leichmaniosis - I have now read a lot about the treatments and have decided against the vaccine for the moment for my other dog. There are too many people talking about side effects for me to feel ok about using a fairly new drug. I have opted for Advantix and avoiding the bad times of the day. Someone else said feeding garlic every day is a deterrent. Not sure how I would get this down her!

But my mind is open to more information and I will keep reading up

yours Kate

Simon

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« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2012, 11:57 AM »
Hi Kate,

Very sorry to hear about Blue, I can imagine what you're going through as we are still mourning Ol' Streaky, whom we had to have put down last September.

I guess you've already been told about getting another dog as a good 'therapy' and I also guess you will have thought about rehoming from a protectora. This is how we got Streak and I think it was one of the best things we've ever done. So if you want some personal experiences of doing this either PM me or maybe start a topic somewhere.

Regs

Simon
PS Maria - I'm planning on blasting my way through your area on my motorbike in the last week in June and I'll be staying a few days quite nearby - well I think it's nearby, Comares? Are you 'at home' to transient neo-geriatric airheads like me?

Offline kate

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« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2012, 11:34 AM »
Hi Simon

thanks for the condolences  - it's a strange feeling without a dog who has shared your life for almost 16 years. But she was tired and I am glad she's not struggling on.
I'm afraid we have too much on our plates to get another dog at the moment. We have two and they don't get on. My partners one hates my one who arrived from the UK last year and she attacks her. We have to keep them separate which is not easy in a town house.
In fact we may have to rehome her - in the UK probably if it comes to that.  First we are trying the behavioural therapy route and some more training = for ourselves - to be more pack leaders :dancing:

Meanwhile, I bought two different types of pain relief for Blue just before she died and am wondering if any person or a protectorate would be interested in having them. One is Trocoxil which is a monthly drug for arthritis which was a miracle for her legs. I have about 3 months supply. the other is Previcox - anti inflammatory - new pills too. Any thoughts?

thanks

Kate