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Advantix

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Offline Maria

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« on: July 05, 2009, 12:59 PM »
Does anyone use Advantix? or know anything about it? Ive been on their website and it seems very good to me and beats Frontline in the tests!
I want to get rid of the Scalibor collars on the dogs and so im looking into other options. Also wondering if I need to wait a certain time before applying a new treatment after taking the Scalibor collars off?

Maria   :noidea:

Offline ladena

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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2009, 21:55 PM »
Hi Maria


In England we used to use Frontline but I swapped to Advantix when we moved to Spain because of its protection against mosquitos and sandfly (Leishmaniasis risk). It has been very effective so far on our 3 dogs - we never see fleas and only the very occasional tick - usually in I'm a bit late administering the treatment. (nothing like seeing a tick to remind you it's time for the next treatment!)  I decided against the Scalibor collar because I didn't want my friends toddler having contact with it.

 Having said that no product is 100% effective and within 3 months of arriving in Spain our whippet x terrier contracted Ehrlichiosis (transmitted via tick) - despite being treated with Advantix. No problems since then though.

Hope this helps

Dena

PS: Our whippet recovered fully from the ehrlichiosis - once she was on the right treatment
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Offline Maria

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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 09:23 AM »
Hi Dena

Thanks for your comment on advantix its very encouraging. I think it is more effective than the Scalibor collars and having lost 1 dog to leish and have another with it and one unclear reading, im looking to give them the best protection possible and its a bit of a mind field. We have had a few ticks on the dogs, not many, but more than I would expect.

Can you buy advantix in Spain?

Im glad to hear your whippet fully recovered from ehrlichiosis, its nice to know that something can be cured unlike leish.

Maria

Offline ladena

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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 12:32 PM »
Hi Maria

We buy Advantix direct from our local petshop. I'm sure it must be widely available.

Sorry to hear about your experience with leish. A close friend lost both her dogs to it - heartbreaking.

Dena
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Simon

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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 10:39 AM »
Hi Maria and Dena,

Thanks for this post about Avantix. Your ears must have been burning, Maria, as I first saw Avantix at a new vet's around the time you made this post. Since then I've ordered it at my usual vet up in the Pyrenees and we'll start using it on our two from this weekend, for a trial at least.

I'm not sure if it's going to work out cheaper than Frontline (that's not the main considration anyway but I must say it helps!), as we do well spilitting the Frontline 40 - 60 kg pipette between our two huslkies, a both of them weigh-in at something less than 25kg.

In fact I've just checked the Bayer homepage and find that we're on the cusp, i.e. there are pipettes for 10 - 25 kg and over 25 kg, so I'd better get the weighing scales down from the trastero and keep a close eye on the propinas!

Regs

Simon

PS, our vet had to ring around a bit to find the supplier, so it may be worth persevereing if you have difficulties. Pointing out that it's made by Bayer should help locate a supply too!

Offline Maria

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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 13:28 PM »
Hi Dena and Simon

Thanks for the info, I shall have a good search around and see if I can locate any, I will need to get some more tablets from our vet soon for the leish so  will ask him if he has any or if he can get hold of any.

Good luck with the weighing Simon  :speechless:

Offline elmussol

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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 00:58 AM »
Weighing in a little late as per... We've used Advantix on our two dogs since we moved here (two and half years ago), with on the whole good results. One small comment: it doesn't seem to last a full month for them, in the week leading up to reapplication, we notice a few ticks which we treat with neat essential oil of thyme, untill it's time to reapply. It does ruffle my feathers slightly to give money to Bayer on a month basis... pero que vamos hacer?

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Offline Sue

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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 10:27 AM »
Hi Pault,
as an aside to your main topic ... there are few essential oils that you can put directly onto skin without a base oil (olive/grape seed/sweet almond)
Lavender and Tea tree are the only ones that i've read about, obviously you're not worried about the tick's skin  ::) ...

I'd recommend Lavender essential oil as it works really well on killing ticks and at the same time will heal the damaged area of the pet's skin too.
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Offline Maria

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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2009, 11:03 AM »
Great bit of info about the oils thank you.

Maria

Simon

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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2009, 11:50 AM »
Mornin' all,

Well, we collected the Avantix on Saturday and have just administered it. A few notes:

Now that I've read the smallprint in the actual leaflet, it's clear that the dosage is 1 ml per 10 kgs of body weight. Following our usual custom with Frontline, our vet ordered the 'Over 25kg' size (which came in a pack of four*, not three or six, as the Bayer page states - maybe marketing in Spain is different). This ranges from 25 - 40 kg body weight, so we have given our fiends a slightly lower dose than they should have.

Also in the smallprint, Avantix is only effective for a reduced time for some species:

Sand flies: Phlebotomus papatasi - 2 weeks, and Phlebotomus pernisciosus - 3 weeks (both Leishmaniasis carriers)

Mosquitoes: Aedes aegypti (Yellow fever) - 2 weeks

Now, bearing in mind that the sand flies are the biggest problem for you guys down in the Big Heat, you'd want to increase the dose to every two weeks. Add to this paults observation that the claim for effectiveness against ticks is also foreshortened, it is logical to use Avantix more frequently - now read on (NB I can't claim that this is the case for Avantix, but it is true of several medications that I was involved with professonally in my previous life, so read this with caution and perhaps talk it over with your vet) . . .

Many long acting medications deliver the effective dose in a particular way; as the medication is released gradually from the vector medium, usually a type of oil, the dosage delivered into the metabolism quickly rises  in a sharp 'bow wave' and 'peaks' after the first day or so, and then tails off gradually over the ensuing time period, hence the dropping off of effectiveness over two, three and four weeks, etc. that both Bayer acknowledge and we have seen for ourselves.

These long acting medications work accumulatively, so if you adminster another dose before the first has expired it will be an additional or increased dose, so that the 'bow wave' adds dose on top of the 'tail' of the previous dose**.

So, it is possible to maintain an 'ideal' dose by overlapping the administration, taking advantage of the accumulated effect, but being very careful not to overdose by putting the 'peaks' too close together. The best way to do this is to use a slightly lower dose, but administer it more often.

Take a look at this excell worsheet chart to show you what I mean.

Hope that's not all too baffling  :banghead: - I'm certainly going to try Sue's lavendar oil solution as well!

Cheers

Simon

* it's been a long, long time since I've bough a 'pack of four'!!!

** NB - I'm sure that the recommended dosage and administration of Avantix will certainly include that effect already, i.e. the drug will be present in ever smaller amounts for much longer than the four week long effective period.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 11:57 AM by Simon »

Offline elmussol

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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2009, 13:05 PM »
as an aside to your main topic ... there are few essential oils that you can put directly onto skin without a base oil (olive/grape seed/sweet almond)
Lavender and Tea tree are the only ones that i've read about, obviously you're not worried about the tick's skin  ::) ...

You are of course correct Sue (on all counts...). Perhaps I should've been a bit more specific: being totally unconcerned about the health of the tick's skin, we just spot the oil on the tick. The tick goes black and falls off in short order. If we want to treat the dogs, we of course dilute in carrier oil. We find that treating them this way lasts for a couple of days at best, but can be a good stopgap until it's Advantix time again.

Quote
I'd recommend Lavender essential oil as it works really well on killing ticks and at the same time will heal the damaged area of the pet's skin too.

It seems that thyme is more effective at the killing bit, but the lavender for healing is a good plan.

pault
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Offline Bob M

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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2009, 13:08 PM »
Simon says:
Quote
Many long acting medications deliver the effective dose in a particular way; as the medication is released gradually from the vector medium

Could you expand on this Simon?  I've always wondered how this works.  The product we use here in the cold and sand-fly-free Basque Country is applied to the nape of the dog's neck where it quickly dries.

Is it maintained as a reservoir in the fur?  In the skin or what?

Cheers.


Bob

Offline elmussol

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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2009, 13:16 PM »
Take a look at this excell worsheet chart to show you what I mean.

I have done a Openoffice.org version of the Excel spreadsheet for those who don't have money to chuck at Bill Gates  :P
Please PM for a copy...

Nick/Clive: any chance of adding .ods (spreadsheet) and .odt (text) to the mime types list?

pault
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2009, 18:24 PM »
Hi Guys and Gals,

In a big hurry to finish the post I realised that I'd forgotten an important bit of the equation, i.e. to 'sum' the dose values! I'll get on to this now! Not sure aboth the Open Office issue though, well beyond my meagre capacity!

Regs

Simon

Offline Clive

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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2009, 18:41 PM »
Quote
Nick/Clive: any chance of adding .ods (spreadsheet) and .odt (text) to the mime types list?

Done
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2009, 19:28 PM »
Right, the file on the link is now corrected, note that you should view the 'top'' line as the actual dose present at any one time, hence my comment about giving an 'underdose'!

Sorry once more about the Openoffice issue, well beyond my ken* this one!

Cheers

Simon

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Offline elmussol

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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2009, 20:04 PM »
Quote from: elmussol
Nick/Clive: any chance of adding .ods (spreadsheet) and .odt (text) to the mime types list?

Done

Thank you. Please find updated meds.ods attached...

pault
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Simon

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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2009, 15:20 PM »
Hi,

Just a quick note.

We are now into our second month using Avantix - so far so good!

Cheers

Simon