Iberianature Forum

Cruelty to animals

  • 12 Replies
  • 6652 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline harryabbott

  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44
« on: August 20, 2009, 17:25 PM »
Expanding on the previous post about bull fighting all in all I do not think the 13 minute corrida is the worst cruelty that faces animals in europe.  What really gets me is the long slow death through sheer neglect of thousands of companion animals throughout europe.
I came across these horses tied, in the bleaching sun, near Santa Rosalia without food  except what they could scrounge of the roadside vegetation which would be extermely low food value and you can see how emaciated they are. I have reported them to SEPE but have recieved no reply. This is a very long lingering death through neglect and the situation with dogs and cats is the same.
 The shelters are currently full and many are left to die slowly in the countryside around the basuras etc were they try to scrounge food. The UK is just as bad in  except that most are lucky enough get accommadated in refuge centres where they are either rehomed or killed.
In my opinion shooting is the worst activity for cruelty. Many  birds fly on with "pickles" to develop infections and die long slow deaths hidden from view. The corrida on the other hand is in our face and so we are much more aware of the death of the animal but at least it can only last a maximum of 13 minutes. The corrida bulls get to live"wild" in a herd with their cows until they are 5 or 6 years old as opposed to 2 years for the animals destined for our dinner tables., which remember have suffered castration! Then we have our cheap mass produced chickens but we don't see them and their conditions on the supermarket shelf. Then we have poisoning, trapping etc, long lingering deaths and indiscriminate ( look at the 3 Spanish Imperial Eagles we lost last month), it seems endless.
I am sure this will stir up a bit of discussion :technodevil:
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 10:53 AM by harryabbott »

Offline lisa

  • *
  • Full Shroomy
  • ******
  • Posts: 2439
    • Accommodation and Activities in the Picos de Europa
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 21:17 PM »
You're right, there's a world of cruelty out there Harry but I think outright cruelty masquerading as art is something else.
www.picos-accommodation.co.uk
Accommodation, ski touring, snowshoeing, walking and info on the flora and fauna of the Picos de Europa.
SAVE SPANISH BEARS!
And now,
The Picos de Europa
Your complete English guide to these beautiful mountains of Northern Spain.

Offline Bob M

  • *
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 185
    • Teflpedia
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 21:30 PM »
All that you say it true - but I think we are looking at two different things.

One is the passive cruelty of neglect; indifference to suffering.

The other is taking positive delight in the suffering and death of an animal.  It's a deliberate public act. Active cruelty "masquerading as art" as Lisa says.

Frankly I'm not sure which is "worse" though.  They are both pretty reprehensible.

Offline harryabbott

  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 00:07 AM »
Hi Bob,
I think the main difference is that the "passive cruelty" tends to be out of sight so we really aren't bothered that much by it even where it is long and lingering.  Who thinks about the final moments of an abandoned dog placed in a gas chamber of a dog shelter after weeks unfed on the streets?  Who thinks about the number of other wounded pigeons dying painfully in the countryside when we see pigeons for sale in the market? Who thinks about how the meat on their plate was killed?  None of us ,me included, but it is the reality.
In terms of scale I think we have got to consider what you describe as "passive neglect" ( too kind a description of the situation I think) as much more important because it involves many, many thousands of animals and tends to be long and lingering. I would also suggest shooting (which can involve hundreds of birds at any one shoot) is much more important to stop than killing the six bulls at each corrida.
Also a change in attitude to the animals surrounding us, companion animals and the animals we eat, might help improve attitude to other animals like the bulls. It is also important that we accept that we are just as cruel in the rest of europe. We still have poisoning, trapping, shooting, illegal dog fighting, shelters full of abandoned pets, factory farming, etc. in the UK.   Lets get rid of all cruelty but if we have to prioritise let's do it with the animals in mind not with our own sensitivities to the fore.
Harry

Offline Technopat

  • *
  • Full Shroomy
  • ******
  • Posts: 3020
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 19:37 PM »
I'm very much with Lisa & Bob on this one regarding the relative inhumanity of it.

Indifference to the suffering of others seems to be inherent to Nature, including human nature. How many of us have sat through the lunchtime news while shown scenes of death and despair. We might push away our plates, unable to stomach a particular scene, but many (most?) people, myself included, are unlikely to be moved to action. Such indifference obviously has no justification, but despite notorious setbacks, I would like to think that more people are now less tolerant of deliberate acts of violence against other human beings and against animals. Education and awareness-raising is clearly where it's at.

Just as the stupidity of arguing over the pros & cons of execution by lethal injection or electric chair is only a way for supporters of capital punishment to convince themselves that they are caring people - the guy's gonna suffer anyway, both at the moment of execution and in the 5, 10, 15 years leading up to it, so who cares? Sure, it's more humane than stoning.

On the other hand, we humans pride ourselves on our ability to produce art forms and much money is spent on various expressions of what can loosely be termed "culture". Like it or not, it's there. I can't stomach much of what we are force-fed with under the name of culture, but in a modern society, to base an art form on the suffering of an animal has no justification whatsoever either.

And while it's clear that far more animals are slaughtered to feed us, six bulls per corrida in, let's say that half the towns and villages in Spain (some 8,100 - http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipios_de_Espa%C3%B1a), have bullrings, throughout the country PER DAY, during the season is a considerable figure.

More-on-this-issue-later-but-enough-for-the-time-being regs.,
Technopat
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 22:46 PM by Technopat »
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Technopat

  • *
  • Full Shroomy
  • ******
  • Posts: 3020
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 22:09 PM »
That said, is it a mere question of numbers or of principles?

Every year, on the 15th September, i.e. next Tuesday, the town/city? of Tordesillas "celebrates" the torture of just one bull (well, apart from all the bulls during the bullfighting season), el Toro de la Vega.

Over the next few days, you'll get to hear/read/see plenty of debate regarding this cultural event, but in the meantime: http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/516655/0/valladolid/toro/vega/

And-Castilla-y-León's-High-Court-(surprise, surprise)-has-prohibited-demonstrators-from-being-present-at-this-year's-edition regs.,
Technopat
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 22:18 PM by Technopat »
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Technopat

  • *
  • Full Shroomy
  • ******
  • Posts: 3020
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 22:45 PM »
And then, of course, there's the Toro "Júbilo" de Medinaceli, and the Toro of Coria and...http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/424000/0/toro/jubilo/soria/

According to the following article: http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/139294/0/maltrato/animales/fiestas/ 60,000 animals are tortured every year during "cultural" events in Spain.

Mindless-stats regs.,
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Waste-Dweller

  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
    • ¡Destruida!
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 22:06 PM »
Un informe veterinario documenta el terrible maltrato del Toro Jubilo
PACMA pone en marcha una web que recogerá apoyos para poner fin a los toros de fuego incluso fuera de nuestras fronteras.
Here's the special site, with video and petition to sign: http://burningbulls.org/es/
Here's the vet's report: http://www.pacma.es/files/Informe_veterinario_toros_de_fuego.pdf

Offline Clive

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Full Shroomy
  • *****
  • Posts: 2969
  • Sierra de Grazalema
    • Wildside Walking Holidays - Spain
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2014, 10:45 AM »
Thanks for that Waste Dweller, I have signed the petition but the website is a bit clunky... If anyone else goes there then remember you have to scroll down the inserted window to get to the name, email and save bit.... The "Dona" link takes you to the donation page.... (I did not tick receive emails from this organisation)
Clive
Explore the nature of Iberia at www.wildsideholidays.com

The beautiful town of Ronda, the City of Dreams?

The spectacular Caminito del Rey, El Chorro and Guadalhorce reservoirs El Camino del Rey

Offline Waste-Dweller

  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
    • ¡Destruida!
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2014, 16:37 PM »
(I did not tick receive emails from this organisation)
It's not something to avoid, if you care about Iberian nature. Yes, the Burning Bulls site is new and is a bit clunky, but its a sub-site of PACMA, which is the second strongest (by number of votes) extra-parliamentary political party in Spain, the Partido Animalista Contra el Maltrato Animal (PACMA) which was created in 2003 and has gone from strength to strength, as can be seen from the bar charts here: http://www.pacma.es/pacma  Here are a recent notice about wolves: http://www.pacma.es/n/17851/el_principado_de_asturias_autoriza_una_matanza_de_lobos_en_picos_de_europa
an here about cpturing songbirds: http://www.pacma.es/n/17845/pacma_pide_a_la_generalitat_de_cataluna_que_prohiba_la_captura_de_aves_cantoras
It's not some bunch of nutters. (I used to be a paid-up member, but they want to ban hunting with dogs, so I unjoined.)
I think it's great that Spain has a whole politicl party primarily based on stopping cruelty to animals - that's more than can be said for the supposedly animal-loving, badger-slaughtering Brits!

« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 16:40 PM by Waste-Dweller »

Offline Clive

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Full Shroomy
  • *****
  • Posts: 2969
  • Sierra de Grazalema
    • Wildside Walking Holidays - Spain
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2014, 17:38 PM »
Hi.... I didn't tick the newsletter because I have  lot of newsletters already.........

Quote
It's not some bunch of nutters. (I used to be a paid-up member, but they want to ban hunting with dogs, so I unjoined.)

You unjoined because they want to ban hunting with dogs? From your previous comments on other topics that sounds a bit odd... Or maybe I read it wrong?
Explore the nature of Iberia at www.wildsideholidays.com

The beautiful town of Ronda, the City of Dreams?

The spectacular Caminito del Rey, El Chorro and Guadalhorce reservoirs El Camino del Rey

Offline Waste-Dweller

  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
    • ¡Destruida!
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 17:57 PM »
Hi.... I didn't tick the newsletter because I have  lot of newsletters already.........
Oh, sorry. I thought perhaps the clunky site put you off and you didn't realise it was PACMA. My misunderstanding.
Quote
You unjoined because they want to ban hunting with dogs? From your previous comments on other topics that sounds a bit odd... Or maybe I read it wrong?
Yes, you did,or I didn't put it clearly (nothing new there.) I've just explained again in the other thread, at least I hope I have. I don't like hunting, I mean I hate seeing the poor rabbit terrified and then killed not-quite-fast-enough, but I'm not against it - most of my friends are hunters or have hunters in the family - I just don't want to have to take part in it myself or eat the poor disgusting dead rabbit. I'd even enjoy the taking part - stalking and watching the dogs and ferrets - if I hadn't seen how it ends.  :'(  :'(  :'(
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 18:03 PM by Waste-Dweller »

Offline Waste-Dweller

  • *
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 68
    • ¡Destruida!
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 20:39 PM »
I think it that the second-worst thing we do to animals is intensive farming http://www.ciwf.org.uk/ which is hell for the farmed animals and terribly destructive of the habitats of wild animals, but the very worst is laboratory testing on live animals, which is of unimaginable and unbearable wickedness. http://www.iaapea.com/ If there's anything to leave when I die, that's where it'll go.