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Caza Menor dates for disaster?

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Offline Clive

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« on: March 06, 2007, 20:07 PM »
Hola,

Whilst still trying to get my head around the logic of the big game hunting thread I thought i would start this one as well to keep everyone occupied. hehehehe

In the three pictures you see the small game hunting dates and in the third picture you see the amount of "trophies" each hunter is allowed to shoot on a daily basis.

Ducks, hares, rabbits aside I am looking with dread at the dates and amounts for "Zorzals" which would be fieldfare, redwing, songthrush and mistle thrush.

25 "Zorzal" per hunter per day! Look at the numbers of the others.

I personally know a guy that shoots the thrushes every winter(wintering birds from northern climes that are protected species in those countries). He saves them up in his freezer until he gets 50 or so and then has a barbecue.

I understand shooting for food but times have changed and this man's freezer is full of food from the supermarket... He only shoots the birds because the law allows him to and worse still because he enjoys it.

And then to rabbits...Um.. food supply for lince?

The third page just says it all I think. Never mind devils advocate this time. They say you can shoot the linces food supply to pieces and then ask the hunters to help them protect the lince in the advert at the bottom.

Opinions anybody?

Clive
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 22:02 PM »
Greetings Clive,
I had a feeling all along that you wouldn't be able to keep up that D's A. lark (no pun intended) for long! A sheep in wolf's clothing?

Saw yesterday on the news that record numbers of flamingoes are lazing about at the Delta del Ebro - is there any danger of them taking the next flight down to Doñana and being included among the trophies for acuatic birds? I suppose that there being so many of them, some people might argue that culling was called for - only in order to prevent native species being deprived of whatever flamingoes eat in such large amounts...
Regards,
Technopat
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 23:49 PM by Technopat »
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
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Offline nick

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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 23:02 PM »
A sensible hunter should want lynxes on her estate. As I've said in a previous post, it means more rabbits to shoot.
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php?topic=18.msg398#msg398.

The real problem today for lynxes aren't hunters. It's myxamatosis and roads. In fact, the lynx is strongest in private hunting estates in the Sierra Morena, where I believe it is now a status symbol among the rich to have a lynx roam their property.

Sorry, disgressing from thread here
Nick
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2007, 00:07 AM »
Nick,
How many hunters - sensible or otherwise - could/would resist potting a lynx as a trophy? One would have thought that being so highly protected (?) no-one in their right mind would hang it up on a wall, but ... 
See you're still resisting that roadkill thread I suggested. You'll come round.


Regs.
Technopat
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 23:35 PM by Clive »
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Technopat

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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2007, 23:01 PM »
Greetings All,
Looks like I'm going to have to find time to play the D's Advocate, after all.
Not sure, however, that I'm up to it - I'll see what comments I can gather from my hunter acquaintances, but it's going to be a long-term project - I suppose they're all off potting at the moment in different parts of the peninsula and at different species of the peninsula, protected or otherwise.


Cheers!
Technopat
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 23:36 PM by Clive »
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Dave

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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 19:29 PM »
Dear All
Reminds me of a couple of years ago, someone decided to have a Falconry exhibition in La Plaza San Marcelo here in Leon, known locally as 'Plaza de las Palomas', The highlight was a demonstration of a Peregrine Falcon, absolutely brilliant, I have never seen so many pigeons disappear so fast, luckily the Peregrine was not too interested, otherwise we could have had a repeat of the Flamingo incident. all I remember is looking up at the surrounding buildings, from which hundreds of pigeons were to be seen looking anxiously in the direction of the Plaza.

Offline Technopat

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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2007, 00:35 AM »
Greetings All,
Interesting chat the other day with a small-game hunter (portero at a friend's place and who supplies the local bars with rabbit, etc. according to the weekend's luck) whose hunting/poaching grounds have been Castilla-La Mancha and Andalusia for over 40 years. After lulling him into that nice sense of false security that makes all the diff., I let him rave and rant at will, with occasional specific answers to the odd question I managed to sneak in.

His angle on the dates - which he said were totally criminal and anti-natural - was that they were fixed by the ecologistas (his term) and artificially extended beyond what each species could cope with (if they were breeding in the wild) in order for the ecologistas to release their own-bred stocks, whether they be partridge, rabbit or boar, etc. On my suggestion that the dates were set by the local authorities and based on objective analysis, etc., he laughed and asked how long I'd been living here.

While on the subject of stocks, he said that any wild animal found/seen in the wild nowadays had either escaped from the farm or had not yet been bagged at the last hunt - i.e. all small game was now bred on farms (owned by the ecologistas). Even wild boar were no longer wild. Dangerous, yes - but not wild.

Badgers, rather than foxes, were the biggest threat to his hens in the village. When I asked how he could tell the diff. 'tween the damage caused by one or t'other, he insisted that badgers killed any number of hens without eating them whereas a fox would only go for one hen and eat it. (When I told him that I thought badgers preferred worms and insects, etc. he teased me for being from the city.)

In his opinion, there is only one species more despicable than the ecologistas, and that was the 4x4 weekend hunter who isn't at all interested in what s/he (must remember to ask him 'bout male-female ratio) bags or when. Simply a matter of the number of trophies to boast about.

Will continue bending his ear (Sp. anyone ?)
Regs.
Technopat

Ps.
Like any true nature lover, he loves to watch the baby bunnies frolicking (or is that what lambs do?) - says it's one of the most beautiful sights in nature and that he's truly privileged to know where to go a watch them ... before blowing their cute little brains out, I suppose.
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Clive

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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2007, 08:59 AM »
Hola,

Well there's a surprise...(sarcastic sigh!)

We live in a world where people are a. ignorant of their surroundings. b.believe there own lies. And c. make stuff up as they go along...It is very tiring at times..

The word "cinegetico" derived from "of the chase" are run by hunters for hunters. They breed animals to be released into the wild or to be held captive and shot in pre prepared shooting areas. another translation would be "agro killing"?

there is a discussion on the word use at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/769434

The only reason that cinegeticos are necessary is because of over hunting wild stocks by ignorant people who seem to think that animals just breed loads and will just magically grow back again....Also when a hunter pays hard cash to kill an ibex he doesn't want to go home without a trophy...The cinegeticos are keeping both the rabbit hunter and the "big" game hunter happy...

Your guy is showing his ignorance because of the sign that is probably at the gates of the breed to shoot farm...Down here it normally says Junta de Andalucia and Medio Ambiente. This does not mean the animals are being bred by "ecologistas"

I have had similar conversations with a hunter acquaintance down here who tells me that without the cinegeticos there would not be a lot to shoot...Maybe this is why he is still shooting upwards of 80 thrushes a year during their spring migration to northern climes... (see the images at the top for info on zorzales)

angry and sad regards

Clive

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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2007, 22:41 PM »
Greetings All,
It's that time of year again. City-dwellers traipsing off to the hills and taking potshots at anything (?) that moves. In Toledo (Castilla-La Mancha), la general, my f.-in-law called it, began last Monday (8th Oct.) and lasts until 8th Feb. Irritating noise of shotguns and dogs barking all weekend around the house.
Had weighed the pros and cons of setting up a roadkill thread some time back 'cos there seems to be a direct cause and effect in the increase of the number of dead rabbits (or is it 'cos they're breeding more at this time of y.?) appearing at roadsides. Can't you just picture the scene? Little Bunny Wabbit, having seen Mummy Bunny Wabbit blown to smithereens in front of his/her very eyes, hares off across unknown territory with pack of baying hounds in hot pursuit and, finally succeeding in shaking the b. off, stops for a breather and to get bearings. Splat! Along a 35km stretch of the Toledo-Avila road this afternoon, I counted 25 freshly-killed rabbits and half-a-doz. not-so-fresh-or-too-squashed-to-tell bods. and certainly missed many more when being overtaken, etc. (Usually play I-spy but kids were asleep this time.)
S'pose it's the mindlessness of it all that gets me most. Adult men (?) pitting their wits and 12-bores against dumb animals bred in captivity and then bragging 'bout their prowess.

Thank-Darwin-my-father-in-law-ain't-one-of-'em regs.,
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
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Offline Sue

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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 11:26 AM »
Hi Technopat and All,

We have also noticed a number of dead rabbits on the road side close to a local village. In this case it is because of myxomatosis.

It might not all be down to the hunter if that is the case.
As this virus is spread by parasites, perhaps the autumn rain / temperature favours a flea population boom so that there is a seasonal increase in the vector - therefore more road kill of debilitated rabbits. 

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Offline lucy

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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 13:57 PM »
While walking yesterday, I met a very lethargic rabbit, who hopped off the path,instead of bolting into the undergrowth, and stayed there without moving. I didn't realise myxomatosis was still around, having had a vague idea about surviving rabbits developing resistance to it.

Offline Clive

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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 16:03 PM »
New topic on Rabbits and myxomatosis at http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,812.msg6334.html

TP can you delete your above post and re do it on the new topic please

Clive

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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 16:08 PM »
It worked! I think ...
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
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Offline David

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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 23:12 PM »
Hi Clive
Increadable i canto believe it but it now puts into place what i witness  here  late ever evening and especially at weekends. As a hunter in UK all my life, i came here with every intention of carrying on the sport .I left my guns in UK with the intention of importing them once settled.The first year i heard the shooting and came to the conclusion by the number of shots that these guys were taking they were not shooting normal quarry.I then realised that they were shooting anything that got up or flew in front of them mainly songbirds.I have 30,0000 sq MTS of land but find it impossible to stop them walking over it and shooting.
I look after a friends house who have large piedra walls around the finca, imagine my surprise one day when a guy turned up and started placing live rabbits in the wall .he put about 15 there.I look after the garden and slowly over the spring /summer they increased mainly on the lawns it was a nice site to see them sitting out early morning and late evening.I went there one sunday morning it was like the Alamo . group after group going over the same ground with dogs running everywhere dozens of shots fired.
I decided to give up the sport and sold my guns in UK .I could not be part of this type of shooting .I know some would say that the don't want to be part of any kind of shooting ,but i would say that on balance where i have shot in UK i have put more back into the countryside in many forms of conservation projects than i ever took out.