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Hunters

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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 20:57 PM »
Greetings All,
Not sure that I can agree with being pro-hunting - Technopat usually needs time to digest new ideas, if he can be convinced to accept them  :technodevil: - but surely land management can be equally efficient without letting a bunch of nature-loving hunters (every hunter I have ever spoken to has always insisted on the nature-loving aspect) traipse all over the place and take potshots at sitting targets?

And equally surely, and speaking as a city-dweller (albeit a 'shroom lover) who can't tell an orchid from a garlic plant or a sparrow from a dunnock, for you jizzers and twichers and what-have-yous, the thrill of coming across a particular bird, plant, creepy-crawly, reptile or mammal - and in the best of cases get a beautiful lurid-coloured pic. out of it - must be similar to the thrill of the chase.

Regs.,
Technopat

PS.
In trying to get up to date on the backlog of postings here, I saw that on an earlier posting I had left the following:
Quote
Lettie had recently been presented with a 16,000-peseta shotgun (euros, anyone?). Not by any means the most expensive model available, but not bad for a newcomer to the sportscience art of cinegética (En. anyone?)*.

Of course the correct value of the shotgun in question was 16,000,000 pesetas.
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Clive

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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 23:07 PM »
16 million?

Like 1 million pesetas used to be around 4000 UK pounds... 4000X16= How much? Hells teeth!

Me reckons you mean 160,000 pesetas...

Your shotgun price is presumably the gold plated one with "free" admission to anywhere to kill anything?
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 23:57 PM »
Thanx Clive!
That's the kinda reaction I had expected the first time round - but 'cos of a careless omission of the odd 0 or two or three - but it fell flat. Sorry!

Take a beeline through other precision luxury goods ... a Rolex?

Regs.
Technopat

My sources didn't tell me who gave it to her. Will continue pressing subtly trying to glean it from 'em...
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Steve West

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« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2008, 13:28 PM »
Greetings All,
Not sure that I can agree with being pro-hunting - Technopat usually needs time to digest new ideas, if he can be convinced to accept them  :technodevil: - but surely land management can be equally efficient without letting a bunch of nature-loving hunters (every hunter I have ever spoken to has always insisted on the nature-loving aspect) traipse all over the place and take potshots at sitting targets?

And equally surely, and speaking as a city-dweller (albeit a 'shroom lover) who can't tell an orchid from a garlic plant or a sparrow from a dunnock, for you jizzers and twichers and what-have-yous, the thrill of coming across a particular bird, plant, creepy-crawly, reptile or mammal - and in the best of cases get a beautiful lurid-coloured pic. out of it - must be similar to the thrill of the chase.

Regs.,
Technopat

PS.
In trying to get up to date on the backlog of postings here, I saw that on an earlier posting I had left the following:
Quote
Lettie had recently been presented with a 16,000-peseta shotgun (euros, anyone?). Not by any means the most expensive model available, but not bad for a newcomer to the sportscience art of cinegética (En. anyone?)*.

Of course the correct value of the shotgun in question was 16,000,000 pesetas.

Things would be just great if we could all satisfy our (male) hunting instinct by taking pictures of birds. At the moment though the million or so shotguns have much more economic impact on rural economies than the hundred or so cameras, only some of the owners of which are actually prepared to reinvest in the local landowner's (and the birds') well-being. Shooting ten rabbits or partridges is not a conservation problem if there are 20 or 30 more that don't get shot. And if the landowner manages the land for rabbits and partridges, and respects the laws on nature protection, then he will also be benefitting birds of prey and other predators that also appreciate partridges and rabbits, as well as other creatures that don't but share the same habitat.
I appreciate that hunting may be emotionally upsetting for some but to my mind biodiversity is much more important than the individual fate of a few bunnies! Sorry!

Steve
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Offline Clive

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« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2008, 14:28 PM »
Hi Steve,

Two topics from the hunting board last year may interest you

http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,85.0.html

http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,89.0.html

As far as I am concerned responsible hunting is a very large part of land management... Unfortunately as you and others have commented finding a responsible hunter is quite difficult...

Clive

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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2008, 17:51 PM »
Greetings Steve and All,
Technopat ain't all that concerned 'bout the fate of one or two bunny-wunnies that aren't smart enough to keep their 'eads low - and as someone pointed out elsewhere, there's not that much difference 'tween battery hens and battery rabbits, except that the latter get out 'n' about more and possibly enjoy their short lives a bit more.
If hunters were able to limit their "(male) hunting instinct" to just taking potshots at rabbits and the odd whatnot, it would be much easier to wean 'em off that and get 'em onto other adrenalin-boosting outdoor activities such as wildlife photography* or orienteering or mountaineering or whatever.
The enthusiasm with which you birders speak of your weekends out and the sense of pride I detect when you list what you've spotted, as opposed to potted, makes wonderful reading. But somehow, when someone tells me that he (and we've already dealt with this one, Leti notwithstanding) has bagged a dozen rabbits, there's no pride in there, it's all a bit of a let-down, innit? For both parties.

Unfortunately, one thing leads to another, and from small game to big game is but a step. And for kicks, there's the wolf, tigers bought (legally) from zoos, bears ... It's the mindlessness of it all that gets me.

*and if it's prowess your talking 'bout, surely a perfect shot with a zoom - with the animal staring you in the eye - is more satisfying than a bleeding carcass - and you can enjoy it again and again, reliving the moment and sharing it with others. On a similar note, funny how many hunters I know can't cope with skinning their own rabbits and need someone else to do it for them (I s'pose anglers have no problem gutting fish)

I have no objection to shooting animals when it's a matter of survival, or even, at a pinch, culling. But surely there are other, more constructive ways of enjoying nature?

As for bio-diversity and (efficient) land management and hunting - spot the odd-one-out.

Gotta go!
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Spanish Footsteps

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« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2008, 21:39 PM »
Hola Frmrs

I was on a walk yesterday 10 km from home and saw 3 Ciervas (female deer) carcasses that had been dumped in a field over night.  There was an estimated 80 Vultures making the most of it.  Cars where stopping on both sides of the road to see the birds in a feeding frenzy. Todays Diario de Soria reported on it.

Now whoever killed the 3 deer did not have a permit to hunt, did not kill for the trophy (no antlers) and clearly did not want to shoot the deer for any other reason than, ‘sport’ (in their eyes anyway).  The local farmer is trying to claim damages from the Hunters for the mess in his field.  One of the Forestry Rangers came out to remove the deer as they believed that the site may cause an accident on the road.

Aparently they know who did it, he claims they were shot on private land and dumped in the field to feed the Vultures.  Investigations continue.

Naturally the people of the neighbouring villages are appalled by this action, im sure we haven’t heard the last of it.

Sad site, I must say.

Regards
alfredo
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2008, 08:27 AM »
Greetings alfredo and All,
Quote
dumped in the field to feed the Vultures.
Looks as if it's those darned ecologistas at work again giving the hunters an undeservedly bad name.
Why would the carcasses be dumped so near a road where anyone could have seen them dumping 'em? Something fishy going on here.
Regs.,
Technopat

Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Sue

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« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2008, 10:16 AM »
Hi Alfredo,

thank you for your report.

I do not understand the dumping of a complete carcass when venison can reach a fair price on the menu. As you say not even trophies were taken... but also the chances are he killed six deer as the rut is in the autumn, they may each have been carrying young.

I think that you have a high deer population in your area, but killing at a time of reproduction is not good sport!

Let us know how this unfolds, it will be interesting to see how it is handled.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 10:19 AM by Sue »
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Offline Spanish Footsteps

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« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2008, 20:49 PM »
Hola amigos

The investigations seem to have revealed a different story.  The authorities now say that a ‘Poacher’ driving his vehicle spotlighted the deer and shot them from his vehicle.  The Ecologists have commented on what has happened by saying ‘no tiene sentido’ and rightly so.  They say kill for the sake of killing.   :'(

There is one good thing to come from this.  They also mentioned that the fact that approx 80 Vultures were feeding off the carcasses, indicates that they must be pretty hungry.  So now it seems they are considering amplifying the amount of ‘Muladares’ to keep the Vultures from starving or ‘killing livestock’.

Regards
alfredo

PS: Now I know why Griffons have white heads... so you know when they have just eaten.
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2008, 23:02 PM »
Greetings alfredo,
Thanx for that update - I was curious as to why the killer/s* should have gone to such an effort - makes far more sense that they just happened to see the 3 deer and seeing such a sitting target, just dazzled 'em with the spotlight/full beam. Which reminds me, did I ever tell y'all how croc. poachers (used to) do their dirty work? Given that there aren't all that many crocs on the loose on the Ib. Pen., and Clive is out their on the warpath re. tangents on threads, will save that one for the campsite yarns at Grazalema - but y'all have to remind me 'cos at my age one tends to forget things ...

*poachers would imply they were after the meat/antlers, etc. (this might have been their intention, of course, but after having killed the poor b***, maybe they considered it too risky to proceed with part 2.)

Regs.,
Technopat
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266

Offline Spanish Footsteps

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« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2008, 16:10 PM »
Hola TP

There were no antlers as they were 3 females, or as Sue rightly pointed out possibly 6, as they may have been carrying.

Mindless act,  :banghead:

regards
alfredo
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Offline Technopat

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« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2008, 23:36 PM »
Greetings Clive and All,
Wish to apologise for messing up me figures - on pressing for confirmation of the value of Leti's shotgun, the correct figure is 16,000 euros. Sorry!

Regs.,
Technopat

PS. Shouldn't Leti be included in SueMac's alternative glossary  :technodevil: ?
Technopat's disclaimer: If this posting seems over the top and/or gets your goat (Sp. anyone?), please accept my apologies and don't take it personally - it's just my instinctive tendency to put my foot in it whenever/wherever possible. See also:
http://www.iberianatureforum.com/index.php/topic,266